Reading the Old Testament in a Christ-centered Way

[0:01] How can we see Christ taught through the Old Testament? So I think a lot of times, whenever we do a Bible study of the Old Testament, whenever we open up to a passage, we might fall to one of two sides.

[0:23] Either we immediately try to find some moral and then just move to the New Testament, right? And just move to Jesus and say, okay, well, let's talk about Jesus. Or, on the other hand, we get really deep into all of the history and all of the story and everything in the Old Testament, and we never quite ever get to Jesus, right?

[0:44] And so what I want us to do tonight is to maybe think through what would be some right and appropriate ways for seeing Jesus taught through the Old Testament.

[0:55] Now, before we get there, just some basic, basic things. Why should we try to find Christ in and through the Old Testament?

[1:08] Well, here's a couple of reasons. Jesus implied that he is God and existed before Abraham. So, if you have a Bible, I hope you do.

[1:20] Let's just read through some of these verses. So, John chapter 5 is a very important chapter for what we're talking about tonight.

[1:33] But I want to point out one thing that Jesus says about who he is. So, John 5, 16 through to 18 says this.

[1:46] So, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, he was healing someone on the Sabbath, the Jewish leaders began to persecute him.

[1:57] In his defense, Jesus said to them, My father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working. For this reason, they tried all the more to kill him.

[2:12] Not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own father, making himself equal with God.

[2:25] So, John recognizes that Jesus, by making this statement, is placing himself on the same equal status of God the Father.

[2:36] Now, in the understanding of the people at the time of Jesus, in the understanding of the Jewish people, there is creation, and that includes everything that has ever been created, and then there's God, the Creator.

[2:55] And those two do not cross lines, right? You cannot see anything in God's creation and say, That is God. That is idolatry.

[3:06] Anytime you see anything in creation, and you say, That is God. I'm going to worship this thing from creation. But God is the one who created all things.

[3:16] He is of another kind altogether in their conception. And so for Jesus to say he's doing the same things of God, and for the people to recognize that Jesus is claiming that God is his Father in this intimate way, and for John to say he was making himself equal with God, means in their mind, Jesus is on the God side of that Creator-creature line.

[3:52] Now let's go to John chapter 10. Beginning in verse 25, it says, Jesus answered, I did tell you, but you do not believe.

[4:09] The works I do in my Father's name testify about me. But you do not believe because you are not my sheep. My sheep listen to my voice.

[4:19] I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish. No one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father who has given them to me is greater than all.

[4:32] No one can snatch them out of my hand. I and the Father are one. Now it's a very shocking statement. Because that goes against everything that the typical Jewish person would have thought.

[4:49] But here, Jesus is claiming that he and the Father, on the Creator side of that line, are there together. That he is God in a unique way.

[5:05] And think about what he says. I give them eternal life. Who can give life but God? Let's go to one more passage. John chapter 8.

[5:19] Just going to read a few verses here. Beginning in verse 48. The Jews answered him, Aren't we right in saying that you are a Samaritan and demon-possessed?

[5:30] I am not possessed by a demon, said Jesus, but I honor my Father, and you dishonor me. I am not seeking glory for myself, but there is one who seeks it, and he is the judge.

[5:43] Very truly I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never see death. At this they exclaimed, Now we know that you are demon-possessed.

[5:55] Abraham died, and so did the prophets. Yet you say that whoever obeys your word will never taste death. Are you greater than our father Abraham?

[6:08] He died, and so did the prophets. Who do you think you are? Jesus replied, If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing.

[6:19] My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you.

[6:33] But I do know him, and obey his word. Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day. He saw it, and was glad.

[6:46] You are not yet fifty years old, they said to him, and you have seen Abraham. Very truly I tell you, Jesus answered, before Abraham was born, I am.

[7:00] And so Jesus is here saying that he preexisted before even Abraham. Now they can recognize, they can look at Jesus, they can see that he is fully human, right?

[7:15] They look at him, and they see he is not yet fifty years old. They can tell. You can look at somebody, you can speculate. Fifty years old or not, you know? He is not fifty years old.

[7:27] And yet, he says, before Abraham was, two thousand-ish, two thousand over years back, I am.

[7:40] And so they recognize that he's claiming to be God. He's claiming to preexist. And so if Jesus is God, and if Jesus has existed from before the time of Abraham, shouldn't we expect to see something of Jesus whenever we're reading the Old Testament?

[8:03] Shouldn't we expect that it speaks of him? Well, let's go to a few other verses which imply that his disciples would realize that the Old Testament spoke about him.

[8:16] John chapter 5 again, beginning in verse 31, it says this, If I testify about myself, my testimony is not true.

[8:27] There is another who testifies in my favor, and I know that his testimony about me is true. You have sent to John and he has testified to the truth.

[8:41] Not that I accept human testimony, but I mention it that you may be saved. John was a lamp that burned and gave life, and you chose for a time to enjoy his life.

[8:52] I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the works that the Father has given me to finish, the very works that I am doing, testify that the Father has sent me.

[9:04] And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice, nor seen his form, nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent.

[9:18] You study the scriptures, by which he means the Old Testament, you study the scriptures diligently, because you think that in them you have eternal life.

[9:29] These are the very scriptures that testify about me. Yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

[9:40] I do not accept glory from human beings, but I know you. I know that you do not have the love of God in your hearts. I have come in my Father's name, and you do not accept me, but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him.

[9:56] How can you believe since you accept glory from one another, but do not seek the glory that comes from the only God? But do not think I will accuse you before the Father.

[10:08] Your accuser is Moses, on whom your hopes are set. If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me.

[10:21] But since you do not believe what he wrote, how are you going to believe what I say? Now, what books in the Bible did Moses write? Yeah, the first five books, right?

[10:33] Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy. And so Jesus is saying, those books speak of him. Last passage that we're going to look at is in Luke 24, two sections of Luke 24.

[10:49] This is after Jesus has risen from the dead. He appears to a couple of guys who are on the road from Jerusalem to Emmaus, estimated about 10 kilometers away.

[11:05] And here's what he says, beginning in verse 13 of Luke chapter 24. Now that same day, two of them were going to a village called Emmaus, about seven miles from Jerusalem.

[11:18] They were talking with each other about everything that had happened. As they talked and discussed these things with each other, Jesus himself came up and walked along with them.

[11:30] But they were kept from recognizing him. He asked them, what are you discussing together as you walk along? They stood still, their faces downcast. One of them, named Cleophas, asked him, are you the only one visiting Jerusalem who does not know the things that have happened there in these days?

[11:50] What things? He asked. About Jesus of Nazareth, they replied. He was a prophet, powerful in word and deed before God and all the people. The chief priests and our rulers handed him over to be sentenced to death, and they crucified him.

[12:07] But we had hoped that he was the one who was going to redeem Israel. And what is more, it is the third day since all this took place. In addition, some of our women amazed us.

[12:20] They went to the tomb early this morning, but didn't find his body. They came and told us they had seen a vision of angels who said he was alive. Then some of our companions went to the tomb and found it just as the women had said.

[12:35] But they did not see Jesus. He said to them, notice this, he said to them, how foolish you are, and how slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken.

[12:53] Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory? In other words, they're foolish because whenever they read the prophets in the Bible, they didn't see that the Messiah would suffer and then enter his glory.

[13:11] verse 27. And beginning with Moses and all the prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the scriptures concerning himself.

[13:25] All right, let's stop there. In other words, beginning in Moses, once again, Moses, first five books of the Bible, and all the prophets. prophets. Now, in the Jewish understanding of the Old Testament, we hear the word prophets and we think of like Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, right?

[13:46] They heard the word prophets and they think everything from Joshua all the way through to 2 Kings.

[13:57] So, Joshua, Judges, we'll say Ruth, and then 1 and 2 Samuel, 1 and 2 Kings, and then they also thought of the books that we think of as prophets.

[14:12] So, they're thinking about all these and Jesus says, beginning with Moses and all of these books, he showed them the things that were about him in those sections.

[14:24] Skip ahead to verse 36, While they were still talking about this, Jesus himself stood among them and said to them, Peace be with you. They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost.

[14:37] He said to them, Why are you troubled and why do doubts rise in your minds? Why do doubts rise in your minds? Look at my hands and my feet, it is I myself.

[14:50] Touch me and see. A ghost does not have flesh and bones as you see I have. When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet.

[15:01] And while they still did not believe it, because of joy and amazement, he asked them, Do you have anything here to eat? They gave him a piece of broiled fish and he took it and ate it in their presence.

[15:16] He said to them, This is what I told you while I was still with you. Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the law of Moses, the prophets, and the Psalms.

[15:31] So here we have another section that speaks about him. Verse 45, Then he opened their minds so they could understand the scriptures.

[15:43] He told them, This is what is written. The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations beginning at Jerusalem.

[15:58] Now let's stop there for a second. We should try to find Christ in the Old Testament because he is God and so we should expect to find him and because he said we would.

[16:13] Right? Now, I would assume that part of the reason why we don't see clearly at times is not just because we don't have the right method, but maybe because of our sinful hearts.

[16:28] Did you notice to the two people on the way to Emmaus, he says that they're foolish, that they're slow to believe. These are people who are thinking about Jesus, who know, you know, what has just happened.

[16:43] What is it that is keeping them from seeing? Then later on with the disciples as they're gathered in the room, it says he opened their eyes. So I think our hearts have to be open, our eyes have to be open to see Christ in all of Scripture.

[17:01] Now I want to talk about two extremes on thinking about Christ in the Old Testament. And I don't think that either of these are necessarily what we want to do.

[17:14] One extreme is that Jesus is nowhere in the Old Testament. The other extreme is that Jesus is everywhere. So those who say that Christ is nowhere in the Old Testament, it may be somebody like the Jews, right?

[17:29] They would say Christ is nowhere in the Old Testament. But a surprising number of scholars would say this as well. They would say that Jesus is nowhere explicitly mentioned or looked forward to in the Old Testament.

[17:45] They would argue that Jesus' life, death, and resurrection made people go back to the Bible and maybe find a meaning that's not actually there in the Old Testament, but that they would say points to Jesus somehow.

[18:01] Now I would say we don't follow this view, right? This doesn't seem to be what Christ was talking about. He seemed to say that you're foolish if you don't see him there.

[18:13] But the other extreme can be just as bad. This is kind of where everything in the Old Testament is really just about Jesus, right? And like we ignore the actual meaning of the Old Testament because every passage in the Old Testament is either obviously about Jesus or spiritually about Jesus.

[18:35] And the example that people always give for this one is the story of Rahab, right? She lets out a scarlet cord to let the spies know where she is and everything.

[18:52] And the argument is that Justin Martyr, writing in the second century, he used this as an illustration of Christ. And he said clearly this is pointing us to the blood of Jesus.

[19:04] The blood of Jesus which protected her family from the wrath of God, which was the attack on Jericho. Now, that's probably not what that means.

[19:16] So it's two extremes here. It's on the one hand, Christ is nowhere, on the other hand, Christ is everywhere. I would suggest that there are actually a number of positions in between these.

[19:31] But I want to just put forward two that I think are really helpful. And the first one is that Christ is the goal of the Old Testament. So you have your fancy theology word for the night, Christotelic, right?

[19:46] Doesn't that sound fancy? You can really impress somebody somehow, somewhere. Like, on a Tuesday night, you're at the Mamak, you're hanging out with some friends talking politics, and you're like, does anybody know what Christotelic means?

[19:58] I do. Right? Don't do that. So telos, in Greek, means the end or the goal, and Christo means, you know, Christ, right?

[20:09] And then the other is that Christ is the center, so that everything is centered on him, right? Everything in the Old Testament.

[20:19] So I'll explain each of these one by one so that we have a better grasp. So the first one that I mentioned is Christotelic. Christ is the goal.

[20:34] Those who hold to this position would say that Jesus fulfills the Old Testament, even if the Old Testament isn't always directly about Jesus.

[20:47] So for instance, they would say you read a story about the battle of Jericho, and they would say the meaning of that story is about God defeating the Canaanites, God driving out the Canaanites from Jericho, God bringing his wrath on the city of Jericho, God saving Rahab and her family, God justifying Joshua's authority through this event, all of that, right?

[21:17] They would say that's not directly about Jesus. And so they would say the meaning of that passage is not about Jesus. Jesus. But we'll get there.

[21:31] They would say that the Old Testament consistently and everywhere moves the story toward Jesus. So they would say after the battle of Jericho, we're now closer to the story of Jesus.

[21:48] We have more revelation about who God is, what he's done in history, and so this is moving us there. I'll explain how this works a little more in a second.

[22:00] They would say you need to have two readings whenever you're reading the Old Testament. The first reading is where you're trying to understand the original context, you know, when was this, who were the enemies at Jericho, Jericho, you know, what do we know about Joshua, you know, what do we know about the city of Jericho, how big were the walls, what does archaeology tell us, all of these types of questions, and they would say that is the first reading's meaning of the passage.

[22:35] And they would ask how would the original audience have heard this message? These are all good questions, we want to do this, right? How would the original audience have heard this message? If they were hearing the book of Joshua read to them, what's that audience going to come away with about who God is, about what has happened?

[22:57] They would say, what is this passage trying to teach out to that original audience? What is, what are they supposed to come away with afterwards?

[23:07] Like, are they supposed to say, you know, man is sinful, God is glorious, you know, God will fight battles? I mean, what are they supposed to come away with, right?

[23:19] And then finally, they would ask, what are themes or key ideas that arise out of this passage? Well, God is a warrior. God will uphold the leadership of those who trust in him.

[23:34] There are various themes or ideas that might arise from the passage. But then they would say, after you've done this work, now you do a second reading of that passage.

[23:47] passage. And now consider, how do those themes that arise from the passage relate to the bigger biblical story?

[24:01] So we have the theme of God pouring out his wrath on the city of Jericho. So you think about the bigger picture, the story of the Bible.

[24:13] Why is God pouring out his wrath? Well, he's pouring out his wrath against the Canaanites. Why? To open up the promised land for his people. How is that moving the story forward?

[24:24] How does it fit within the big picture? And then eventually, how does that get us to Jesus? So if you're using this method, which I think is a fine method to use, if you're using this method, you're trying to think through what was that original audience supposed to hear?

[24:46] What was the author trying to say to them? What are the themes? What are the big points? And then you're taking those and you're putting them in light of the big story and asking, okay, if this fits here, how is this moving us from here to Jesus here?

[25:08] In other words, if Christ is the goal, how is this getting us there? Right? Now, they would still say that passage may not explicitly talk about Jesus, but they would say that passage is still about Jesus in that it is God's story of what God is doing through history to get us to Jesus.

[25:37] Okay? So this would be kind of option one. And I think that this is a valid way to interpret scripture to move toward Jesus.

[25:50] Now, I have here David and Goliath. Right? so let me read to us 1 Samuel 17. And I want you to think through as I'm reading this story, I want you to think through how would we think about the, how the original audience would have heard this story, about what would be some of those key themes that they would have heard a thousand years before Jesus, right?

[26:21] how it would have helped them to think about God, and how it might move us toward Jesus. Now, the Philistines gathered their forces for war and assembled at Soco in Judah.

[26:35] They pitched camp at Ephes-Damin between Soco and Azekah. Saul and the Israelites assembled and camped in the valley of Elah and drew up their battle line to meet the Philistines.

[26:48] The Philistines occupied one hill, and the Israelites another, with the valley between them. A champion named Goliath, who was from Gath, came out of the Philistine camp.

[27:02] His height was six cubits and a span. He had a bronze helmet on his head and wore a coat of scale armor of bronze weighing 5,000 shekels.

[27:13] On his legs, he wore bronze greaves and a bronze javelin was slung on his back. His spear shaft was like a weaver's rod, and its iron point weighed 600 shekels.

[27:26] His shield bearer went ahead of him. Goliath stood and shouted to the ranks of Israel, Why do you come out and line up for battle? Am I not a Philistine?

[27:37] And are you not the servants of Saul? Choose a man and have him come down to me. If he is able to fight and kill me, we will become your subjects.

[27:48] But if I overcome him and kill him, you will become our subjects and serve us. Then the Philistines said, This day I defy the armies of Israel.

[27:59] Give me a man and let us fight each other. On hearing the Philistines words, Saul and all the Israelites were dismayed and terrified.

[28:12] Now David was the son of an Ephrathite named Jesse, who was from Bethlehem in Judah. Jesse had eight sons, and in Saul's time he was very old. Jesse's three oldest sons had followed Saul to war.

[28:26] The firstborn was Eliab, the second Abinadab, and the third Shammah. David was the youngest. The three oldest followed Saul, but David went back and forth from Saul to tend his father's sheep at Bethlehem.

[28:41] For forty days the Philistine came forward every morning and evening and took his stand. Now drop down to verse twenty. Early in the morning David left the flock in the care of a shepherd, loaded up and set out as Jesse had directed.

[28:56] He reached the camp as the army was going out to its battle position shouting the war cry. Israel and the Philistines were drawing up their lines facing each other. David left his things with the keeper of supplies, ran to the battle lines, and asked his brothers how they were.

[29:14] As he was talking with them, Goliath, the Philistine champion from Gath, stepped out from his lines and shouted his usual defiance, and David heard it.

[29:26] Whenever the Israelites saw the man, they all fled from him in great fear. Now the Israelites have been saying, do you see how this man keeps coming out? He comes out to defy Israel.

[29:37] The king will give great wealth to the man who kills him. He will also give his daughter in marriage and will exempt his family from taxes in Israel. David asked the men standing near him, what will be done for the man who kills the Philistine and removes this disgrace from Israel?

[29:55] Who is this uncircumcised Philistine that he should defy the armies of the living God? They repeated to him what they had been saying and told him, this is what will be done for the man who kills him.

[30:10] Now I want us to skip down to the battle scene. Beginning in verse 41. Meanwhile, the Philistine with his shield bearer in front of him kept coming closer to David.

[30:24] He looked David over and saw that he was little more than a boy, glowing with health and handsome, and he despised him. He said to David, am I a dog that you come at me with sticks?

[30:37] And the Philistine cursed David by his gods. Come here, he said, and I'll give your flesh to the birds and the wild animals. David said to the Philistine, you come against me with sword and spear and javelin, but I come against you in the name of the Lord Almighty, the God of the armies of Israel, whom you have defied.

[31:00] This day the Lord will deliver you into my hands, and I'll strike you down and cut off your head. This very day I will give the carcasses of the Philistine army to the birds and the wild animals, and the whole world will know that there is a God in Israel.

[31:20] All those gathered here will know that it is not by sword or spear that the Lord saves, for the battle is the Lord's, and he will give all of you into our hands.

[31:34] As the Philistine moved closer to attack him, David ran quickly toward the battle line to meet him. Reaching into his bag and taking out a stone, he slung it and struck the Philistine on the forehead.

[31:46] The stone sank into his forehead, and he fell face down on the ground. So David triumphed over the Philistine with a sling and a stone.

[31:58] Without a sword in his hand, he struck down the Philistine and killed him. Now let's stop there. You know the story, right? So let me ask you a question.

[32:10] What are some of the key ideas, the main points, or the themes, that this passage would mean to the original audience?

[32:24] Those hearing it a thousand years before Jesus? Who will be bold to offer something up?

[32:46] Who will fight against him? Fear and faith. I'm sorry? Fear and faith. Okay, so we have both fear and faith in this situation.

[32:56] fearing the opponents of the Lord and having faith to go against these types of challenges for the Lord. Yeah, fear and faith are both themes.

[33:07] What else? Absolutely. I mean, we see here, both historically, God delivering his people from the Philistines, right?

[33:25] But we also see this greater theme of God as deliverer. Right? And so, thinking about some of these things, those who would say Christ is the goal, would they would look maybe back to the Exodus, and they might say, here we see God as a deliverer of his people.

[33:48] They would look at this story, and they would say, we see this theme continued, God as a deliverer of his people. He delivers his people from evil by their king.

[34:01] They've already been anointed at this point, actually, but by their king, David. Then they would move forward, and they would say, we see further kings through whom the Lord delivers his people from opponents.

[34:16] So you might think of Hezekiah, right? Whenever the Assyrian army surrounds Jerusalem, he comes to the Lord, and he prays for help, and the Lord delivers them by a miraculous act, and then he moves forward to Jesus, right?

[34:34] Jesus, facing sin, delivers his people, right, through offering up himself in our place.

[34:46] So if you hold to a Christotelic position, or a Christ is the gold position, then this is how you would reason through seeing Christ in the Old Testament.

[34:56] And this is a valid and a very safe method. I'm just going to put it that way, very safe, right? Now let's talk about another method, Christocentric.

[35:09] This is also a valid method, right? It's a little different, and you'll see how. Now, the Christocentric position would say that Christ is the center of the Old Testament.

[35:26] Ultimately, the Old Testament is about Christ. Okay, see the difference? It's not just that the Old Testament is moving us to Christ, it's that the Old Testament is about Christ.

[35:41] The message of the entire Bible, including the Old Testament, is about Jesus. Christ stands as the climax and center of history such that his life, death, and resurrection provide the key for fully understanding the earlier portions of the Old Testament and its promises.

[36:04] That's a summary of a statement by G.K. Beal, if you know who that is, who holds the disposition. So the idea here is that have you ever seen one of those movies where you get to the climax and something happens that's an absolute twist and you think, oh my goodness, I didn't see that coming.

[36:30] I need to go back and see earlier on to realize, oh, it was there the whole time and I just didn't see it. right? That's kind of what this method is saying.

[36:43] That the Old Testament is all about Christ. Maybe they didn't see it, but that in light of after Jesus' life, death, burial, resurrection, and ascension, now you look back and you're like, oh, he's there, he's everywhere.

[36:59] We were foolish to not believe what Moses, the prophets, and the Psalms said. So they would say that the steps are that you interpret through Christ and for Christ.

[37:17] What do I mean by this? This would mean that whenever you look at a passage in the Old Testament, you say, you interpret it in light of what Christ has done.

[37:29] What is the meaning now? And in light of what Christ is going to do, you still ask that Christotelic question. How is it moving us there?

[37:41] But in light of, in light of, if you're reading it through Christ, then it's not just that you're trying to figure out, okay, what are the themes for the original audience?

[37:53] What are, you know, how are they interpreting things? You're asking greater questions of, if Christ was always at work, how is Christ at work in this story? If Christ always was wanting us to be seen here, what are the themes, what are the patterns, what are the types that might be pointing us toward Christ?

[38:16] So, interpret in light of the passage, then books, and then the entire Bible, and then various methods.

[38:27] They might say that there are predictions about Jesus, right? And you can see Christ through predictions about Jesus. You can see Jesus as the fulfillment of the story. So, an example of this would be the story of David and Goliath is ultimately about God's chosen king triumphing over his enemies.

[38:49] Well, the fulfillment of that story is Christ triumphing over his enemies. To use the phrase, which is very cliche, but very true, Christ would be the true and better David, right?

[39:04] Through the covenant. So, if you think about the various biblical covenants, the Abrahamic covenant, the Noahic covenant, the covenant with David, the new covenant, and so on and so forth, how is Christ, who fulfills all of those covenants in the new covenant, how is he working through those events to bring them to their climax in him?

[39:32] And then, of course, through God's activity in the story. God gives David the victory here. God is father, son, spirit. So, Jesus is at work in this story.

[39:45] So, they would say in every type of passage that you read in the Old Testament, it's not that every little detail is about Christ, and so we're going to say, you know, the Scarlet Court is about Jesus.

[39:58] Jesus. But it's more that God would redeem anyone, anyone who turns to him by faith. Rahab and her family turn to the God of Israel by faith.

[40:14] The God of Israel, father, son, spirit, is our Lord Jesus, and so we see here a picture of what it looks like whenever we put our faith in Christ and are redeemed out of our sin, out of our slavery to sin, and so they would say in that narrative story you see a picture of what Christ will do here.

[40:42] And maybe they will take that idea and they'll take it through other scriptures and say, look, here we have a theme of Christ redeeming his people or redeeming a people who turn to him by faith.

[40:54] maybe that theme gets larger as we move from old to new. But that's the type of thinking. And I put the words here, types.

[41:07] There are all sorts of interpretations of types. Maybe you've heard of this term or know of this term. So I wrote my doctoral thesis on the Joseph story, and I found books about the Joseph story that would say that there were over a thousand types of Jesus in the Joseph story.

[41:32] So they would see a type everywhere. Like Joseph went down from his brothers. Jesus was separated from his brothers Israel on the cross.

[41:44] It's like, okay, yeah, no. Right? So sometimes we can take it too far. But the New Testament does teach very clearly that there are types in the Old Testament.

[41:56] Adam was a type of the second Adam, Jesus. Right? And so we are doing an okay thing whenever we look for these types in the Old Testament that move us to, show us Christ, and also move us towards Christ.

[42:16] So in the story of David and Goliath, you might see a Christocentric perspective or interpretation, might see Christ in three ways here.

[42:29] One, in the story, right, using the regular Christotelic way as the fulfillment of the eventual story. Second, via a type.

[42:44] David, as the king, Jesus, as the king, David, as well, David, I'm sorry, Jesus, as the new David, the better David, the king of Israel and all who would come to him by faith, right?

[43:06] And so David, being victorious over Goliath, Goliath here, being a type of all who would oppose the things of God, and so thinking through it that way.

[43:21] So they would see types here. And then they would see God's activity. God is the key figure of this story. I mean, he's who the story is really about.

[43:33] David is secondary, Goliath is secondary. It's really about God delivering his people. And they would say, how does God ultimately deliver his people? through the life, death, burial, resurrection, and ascension of our Lord Jesus Christ.

[43:51] And so God as deliverer here is showing us Christ at work in delivering his people. All right? Now, so these are kind of the two, I would say two valid ways.

[44:08] Now, this way is not as safe. Okay? Because this one is prone to two errors. And the two errors would be this.

[44:21] Number one, that you too quickly jump to Jesus. Right? That you don't read the story for the story, but you read the story as a springboard to get to Jesus.

[44:34] Right? And the other is this one can be prone to excess. excess. So, my kids, they overheard me talking with a guy one time.

[44:48] We were talking about the phrase the true and better. Right? And we were talking about how it seems like that's in a lot of sermons now. People will say Jesus is the true and better Adam.

[44:59] Jesus is the true and better Ark. Jesus is the true and better David, whatever it may be. And they heard me talking with my friend and I said, you know, really you can say Jesus is the true and better anything.

[45:13] And so, since then, my kids have started doing this all the time. So, like, we'll be out, we'll be, like, at some restaurant, you know, having food.

[45:24] You know, Dad, Jesus is the true and better Nazi Lamar. Why this satisfies us for a time, he satisfies us for heaven.

[45:36] Okay, okay, I get it. So, this can be prone to excess as well, right? So, that's why I say it's not as safe.

[45:47] This one, safe, but might not get you there to everything you want to get, right? This one, less safe because it's prone to excess, but also can show us a lot of the fruits of what I would say God is saying in the Old Testament even before the coming of Christ.

[46:09] So, a scholar who I greatly respect on this, who I would say is cautious against the excess, is Sidney Grydanus. He's written a number of books preaching Christ from the Old Testament.

[46:22] It's his most famous, but he's also done it for a number of books in the Old Testament, preaching Christ from Genesis, Leviticus, Daniel, five or six of them. And he would say that there are seven different ways that, thinking he would say Christ as the center is an appropriate method, he would say that there are seven ways to get to Jesus that can be used, but he would say with these bottom four, these are where you need to be a little more cautious, because you might be prone to excess.

[47:00] So the first one would be redemptive historical progression. How God is working through history to redeem a people for himself. What he has done to do that.

[47:11] You can work through any narrative of the Old Testament and say this is part of the redemptive historical story of God to redeem a people. Promise fulfillment. Passages have promises about what God will do and those come to fulfillment in Jesus.

[47:27] 1 Corinthians says every promise of God is yes in Christ. Thematically, thinking about those themes that arise from a passage, how are those themes developing across scripture and how do they reach their climax in Christ?

[47:45] And then with these last four you would say, you might want to be a little cautious here, but there are healthy ways to do this. One would be typology, like I mentioned.

[47:56] Another would be by analogy. Now this one is, is, um, it can be done very well, but it can also be done poorly, right?

[48:09] And so what do I mean by an analogy? I mean, you see the story of David, and you see that David is a brave warrior willing to face whatever.

[48:24] by analogy, Jesus is also a brave warrior willing to face trials, right? And so it's not type, it's not saying, you know, this is the type, this is the anti-type, it's just an analogy between the two.

[48:43] And so with caveats on each of these, because there might be excess. The New Testament use of the Old Testament. Testament. So, you read a story, and then you ask the question, does the New Testament ever speak about this passage?

[48:57] You go to the New Testament, if it does speak about it, then you can interpret that Old Testament passage in light of what the New Testament says. It's all God's revelation, right?

[49:07] Now the caveat here is we can't necessarily, therefore, say how the New Testament authors interpreted the Old Testament is that we should always interpret the New Testament.

[49:21] We're not apostles, right? And so we can't see things in the same way that God opened their eyes to see things. We're not writing new revelation that God has given through us, right?

[49:40] But he was, through the New Testament authors. And so the way that they interpret the Old Testament, it, we can look at it and we can say, this is absolutely true. Whenever they say something about the Old Testament, absolutely true.

[49:53] We can interpret it in that way. But that doesn't give us the ability to say, well, we can take that method to any other passage. So, for instance, there's a very famous passage in Galatians 3 and 4, where Paul speaks about two mountains and how they have two allegorical meanings.

[50:15] that doesn't mean that we can go to any passage in the Old Testament and say, well, I'm going to interpret this allegorically. God allowed Paul to do that, but that doesn't mean he allows us to.

[50:28] So we take all of this as a final revelation, and it is good and sufficient in and of itself. So we don't need to go beyond that. And then the last one would be contrast.

[50:39] So this is similar to analogy, but kind of the other side of it. So you read a story about Ahab, right? Ahab was a miserable, terrible king.

[50:51] But Jesus is the perfect king. Right? You can trust Christ against something. And so there are ways to get from the Old Testament to Christ in valid ways.

[51:04] In some of these, we're saying that we see Christ in the Old Testament. And some of these others we say, these are ways that are moving to Christ in the New Testament.

[51:19] But all are valid. Now, we're at an hour. I was thinking it might be a smaller group. And so I was going to have us break into groups and try it with, and this is 22.

[51:32] But I'm going to leave this to you for homework. Homework that you never have to turn in. Right? Homework with no marks. But just kind of think through it on your own.

[51:43] If you were doing, if you were reading Genesis 22, and you were saying Christ is the goal, how would the original audience have heard this story?

[51:55] What are those themes that it's moving us to Jesus? And then if you were to say Christ is the center, thinking about story fulfillment, thinking about types in this passage, there's a pretty clear one, thinking about God at work here, how does the actions of God here relate to the role of the Son of God in the Trinity?

[52:19] These types of things, and how would you get there? All right. So that is it for this section, because we're an hour over. Now we're going to roll into Q&A.

[52:31] Is that what you said? Yeah. Thank you, Carl, for your voice and the voice. Okay, I'll let Carl run the Q&A himself, but I'll just say that thank you, Carl, for all you said, and just let, I'll just open it up for questions.

[52:51] Okay, so you can ask questions about this, or you can ask other Old Testament questions. I enjoy Q&As, even if I have no idea what the answer is.

[53:02] They're always fine. If you have a question, just raise your hand. Or you can ask other questions like, what is my wife's favorite movie?

[53:21] Whatever. Now, Beg that Поэтому, why is it not shown to us it?

[53:41] Yeah, that's a good question and a good point. I would say that those verses that speak about Jesus showing these things are highly debated.

[54:03] And the questions that they ask that are debated are, number one, what are the passages that he's talking about? Like, are we talking Isaiah 53? Are we talking, you know, Hosea 11?

[54:14] What are we talking about here? What are these passages? So that one's hotly, is it Jonah? Okay, that's highly debated. The second thing that is highly debated is, is he showing that all of the scriptures point to him?

[54:30] Or is he showing the things in all the scriptures that point to him? You see the difference? So that's hotly debated as well. Well, the third one is, some people like to say, okay, if it's like a seven-mile walk, how much is he actually saying here, right?

[54:50] And is the reason that it's not giving us the verses, is it because he's intentionally provoking us to search the scriptures to find them? Right?

[55:00] So, those are great questions. It's hotly debated. We don't know. Yeah. But I mean, I would say it does validate our reading through the Old Testament, searching through the Old Testament, to see what are those things that speak of him.

[55:18] Yeah, a few questions. I'm going to start asking you questions.

[55:36] Ready? Where's the best place to eat in preaching? Oh, I don't want to start a fist fight. Sorry. Yes.

[55:49] What you said today is a teaching. It says that the sacrifice of Isaac by Abraham, you know, one of the others, he depicts the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

[56:06] Yeah. But actually, in the case of Isaac, he was not really sacrificed. That's right. That's right. He's not really sacrificed. But Jesus Christ really was put on the cross.

[56:20] That's right. And so, that's a good question. And so, if you were to look at this passage for your homework, which we're going to talk through right now, good work, you did well. Some people would point out types.

[56:32] And I would say some people might go a little too far on the type side here. So, for instance, it talks about wood being laid on the back of Isaac. And they would say that's like the cross being laid on the back of Jesus.

[56:44] That it was three days' walk. Well, Jesus was buried three days, you know, in the tomb. And different things like that. Where I think we're going to find more help with the type is not in Isaac, but in the ram that's caught in the thicket.

[57:03] Because it is the ram that is the substitute that is sacrificed in the place of Isaac. And so, that ram is a type of Christ who was sacrificed on our behalf.

[57:17] So, I think that that's probably going to be more fruitful for a type in this passage. Yeah, good point. Yes?

[57:31] How do you know you interpret something correctly or incorrectly? Or if it's too far? Or if it's not? Just guess. You see if you get fired or not.

[57:42] No. Yeah? Just remember to repeat the question. Oh, okay. So, the question was, how do you know if it is a valid interpretation or not?

[57:53] What I would actually say is there are a number of ways to check. So, one, you might want to look at all of scripture and say, is there anything within my interpretation that's going to contradict any other teaching about who God is, the way God acts in history, those types of things.

[58:11] Second, you want to ask the question of, has anybody else ever seen this? Because sometimes you'll hear people, they'll interpret a passage, and they'll come up with some really fantastical interpretation.

[58:24] It's like, oh, I like that. That sounds good. And nobody's ever thought of it in the last 2,000 years, right? There you should probably think, okay, I'm probably off here somewhere.

[58:36] Yeah, so I mean, I think those are valid ways. Also, just thinking about it in light of the immediate context, in light of the book, you know, it's, am I conveying what the author could have thought or said in a faithful way?

[58:55] Yeah, I think all of those are kind of parameters around it. Like I said, especially with this version, you are prone, or it's at least possible, that you can come to interpretations that might be beyond those bounds that I've given of validating, I couldn't think of the word, validating is what I was going to say, validating the interpretation.

[59:25] But that doesn't necessarily mean that it's wrong, right? It just means that you should probably be a little more cautious. Very good question there.

[59:37] I see some people who have their hand, like, right here, and I'm wondering, are they kicking?

[59:52] Or are they just, like, you know, cursing me under the breath? Yes. Yes. When Nicodemus came in the middle of the night to Christ, but to Jesus, and Jesus was very, I mean, he was very sharp, and he said, you are a teacher, you know, and yet we cannot understand.

[60:15] That's right. How much, how are we, yeah, 2,000 years away from getting? That's right. And this is going back to, I mean. That's right.

[60:25] So we need the help of Jesus. Absolutely. And mostly the Holy Spirit can be us. Absolutely. I think that's absolutely correct.

[60:36] And I think about how Paul says, you know, that the Jews had a veil over their eyes. Like, they could study the scriptures day in and day out, but just not see what he was saying.

[60:47] Right? You search the scriptures, he says, but they speak of me. And so our eyes have to be opened by the work of the Spirit, or we won't see it.

[60:58] Right? We do need to listen to godly counsel, to wise teachers, who God has put an authority over us in terms of teaching. Those are all very good, very good, needed things.

[61:12] Because, yes, we are. I am certain if Jesus were in this room right now, he would be like, how foolish we all are. Right? To not see all the things.

[61:26] All right. Any other questions? Yes? I have a question. When Daniel was to the furthest, you know, suddenly there's another person. And this is, you know, it's supposed to be three, become four.

[61:40] Is the fourth person you think right? Yeah, that's a very good question. So Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego are thrown in. The question was, is the fourth person in the furnace with Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, is that Christ?

[61:55] Well, the non-believing Babylonians looked into the fire and thought, there is one like a son of God.

[62:07] Which, by which they probably mean some divine being. Now, it's possible, I would say it's possible, on the one hand, that that is just referring to some type of heavenly messenger whom the Lord has sent to protect them.

[62:26] I would say it is also possible that that is, in some sense, Christ, who is there with them to protect them.

[62:37] You know, this is another one of those debates, like, before God the Son ever took on human flesh and became Jesus, is he anywhere in the Old Testament?

[62:49] I used to say, no. I think I'm more persuaded now, possibly. Maybe yes. And so I think I would say, in that story, I'd probably still lean towards saying it is a heavenly messenger or a divine being of some kind that God has sent to protect them.

[63:12] But I'm willing to say it's also possible that that is Jesus. Another question to ask, is the Lord Jesus Christ, I mean, our understanding is that the Lord Jesus Christ, that's how we take up.

[63:32] That's how we take up. Yeah, I don't know if, I don't know if in that passage, that we have any clear indications that that would be, that that would be God the Son, that that would be Jesus.

[63:43] It just says he wrestles with a man, and then he recognizes that he was wrestling with God. He means it, wrestles with God. So I'm, I'm not sure.

[63:54] I'm not sure. But, I can't think of anything particularly in that passage which would make me say, that's Jesus, and not just God.

[64:05] There. Yeah. I mean, obviously, Jesus is God, right? Thank you, dude. And the point is, if it's the Lord Jesus Christ that Jacob is wrestling with, the teaching here is, are we supposed, as a human being, to wrestle with God, you know?

[64:23] We can't, and in my own experience, we can never wrestle with God. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I would, I would say no to that, because, I mean, that's a special situation, where Jacob is physically wrestling with, it says, a man, through the night, and then whenever the man touches his hip, and, you know, it paralyzes him there, then he recognizes, oh, I've been wrestling with God, right?

[64:55] I don't think that we could say, from that narrative, which is describing an event in history, that that is prescriptive, that we're supposed to, spiritually, wrestle with God.

[65:08] Because, I, I, yeah, I can't physically wrestle with God. You'd lose. I'd lose. I'm pretty confident. Yes. If Christ is the goal center, is there any room for drawing moral lessons from the Old Testament?

[65:28] Yes. Okay, so, absolutely. That's a, that's a good point. I didn't mention that. There are moral lessons from the Old Testament, especially on that first reading.

[65:41] Like, I think that God wants us to see very clearly, whenever we're reading the law, this is teaching us something about who God is, right? About the way that he has ordered society, about his desires for how people should interact with one another, right?

[65:57] So there are moral lessons that are there. The danger, the danger is stopping there, right? The danger would say, or the danger would be in the story of David and Goliath, where we say, the moral of the story is, kids, don't be afraid to face whatever challenges you have.

[66:22] You have that big exam this Friday, you know, study, study, study hard, get your full marks, and move on, right? Now, so we want to be careful of moralism, but absolutely, absolutely, the Old Testament does have moral teachings for us.

[66:40] And on the one hand, whenever we see the moral teachings in the Old Testament, and we see characters who act in moral ways or immoral ways, that serve as lessons for us, they point us to our need for Christ in various ways as well.

[67:02] So if you think about it, you know, I look at some of these great saints of old, and I say, I say, wow, somebody like Daniel, he is fake, right? That is a moral example, right?

[67:14] But it also presses my soul and says, but I am such a sinner, I don't live up to the standard of Daniel, much less the standard that God desires, right?

[67:26] And so in that way, it pushes me towards Christ as well, to recognize, I need someone whose righteousness exceeds that of the Pharisees, so that he gives me his righteousness, so that I might be saved.

[67:40] Because on my own righteousness, I'm not doing so well. Yes? Yes. Often, I mean, in the media, in the books, they say that the God, of the Old Testament, that's a disconnect, that's a disconnect, that's a disconnect, that's a disconnect, that God of the Old Testament, is a God of what, of genocide, and Jesus is love, so that's a disconnect.

[68:04] Yeah, absolutely, you'll hear people say, there's a famous quote by Richard Dawkins, a famous biologist, he says, the God of the Old Testament, is a megalomaniac, genocidal, homophobe, like, you know, and he goes on for like, a full two paragraphs, just ranting against, the God of the Old Testament, and you know, whenever I hear people say that, they'll say, the God of the Old Testament, was vengeful, and angry, and, and then the God of the New Testament, is loving, and soft, and kind, you know, I don't think they've read either, and what I mean by that, is, like, open up the book of Revelation, our Lord Jesus Christ, is coming, in his wrath, right, like, riding a horse, like, fields of blood, right, and then, open up the Old Testament, and read through it, about how God, is, merciful, with those whom he loves, over, and over, and over, and over again, that, yeah, he's not going to let the wicked, you know, go without justice, but he's going to show mercy, mercy, in the face of, countless times, of immorality, as well, yeah, and so,

[69:19] I, I think that that's a myth, that the God of the Old Testament, and the quote-unquote, God of the New Testament, are separate, God is God, and God's character, doesn't change, from the old, to the new, different stories, different passages, highlight different, aspects of who God is, but his character, never changes, and the God of the Old Testament, is every bit, as loving, and kind, and the God of the New Testament, is every bit, as angry, and wrathful, against sin, so, yeah, great question, thank you, any others, maybe one more, my favorite Malaysian food, is, I am, from my time, in Malacca, young, young, young, young, young, young, young, young, young, young, young, young, let's think, yes,

[70:21] Lee Chong Wei, is a national hero, Michelle, young, she finally did it, doing it, yeah, any biblical questions, can you, your PhD, was on, on Joseph, yes, why Joseph, yeah, so, summarize 300 pages, so there's this older, anti, whenever I was preaching, through the Genesis story, through Genesis 37, I've preached through Genesis 37, like I've always heard, that Joseph is a type of Christ, and this older anti, came up to me afterwards, this was in Malacca, she came up to me, and she's like, Joseph was really not income, Joseph was not income, you know, and she's like, yeah, she's like, he insults his father, he, you know, he's, he disrespects his older brothers, bringing his bad report about him, you know, all these different things, and I'm like, huh,

[71:24] I need to think more deeply, about this passage, so what I ended up actually doing, was studying the Joseph story, very in depth, and looking at, one particular question, about how is the story, talking about issues, of cultural identity, because think about this, so Joseph, goes down to Egypt, and at times in the story, they're pointing out saying, he's Hebrew, he's Hebrew, this Hebrew boy did this, this Hebrew boy did that, even says it a couple times, like, I was taken from the land of the Hebrews, and then in chapter 41, he gets dressed up like an Egyptian, he gets an Egyptian name, Egyptian title, and now, like, whenever his brothers show up, where he's in Genesis 37, they could see him from afar, and had enough time to plan, and know, that's Joseph who's coming, let's plan to kill him, now they're seeing him face to face, in Egypt, and they don't even recognize it's him, so, so, where's his cultural identity, in all this, is he an Egyptian, is he Hebrew, and then you have this story, in Genesis 38, in the middle, where Judah, goes away from his family, lives with the Canaanites, acts like a Canaanite, has kids who, with the Canaanite, who act like Canaanites, end up dying, because they're evil, and guys are the Lord, so are they Canaanites, or are they Hebrews, and what is the story doing, to show us, what it means to be a true,

[72:46] Israelite, so yeah, that's what I said, thank you Carl, for reading us through, tonight's, subject, and I trust that all of you, have benefited from it, and, you can probably hang out, around for another 10 minutes, or so, if you want to ask, if you want to ask, if you want to ask, if you want to ask, but, maybe Carl, would you like to pray for us, I would love to, let's pray, Father God, we thank you so much, that you allow us, even these many years, after you're coming, to read your word, to think about it, to study it, to see you clearly in it, and we confess to you, that just like those disciples, on the way to Emmaus, often because of our heart and hearts, we don't have eyes, to see everything, that we could see, in the text, and so we pray, that you would open our eyes, to see you more clearly, so that we might know, better who you are, to see better, how you have worked, throughout all time, to bring about, the coming of our Lord, to bring about our salvation, to bring about, the grace, in which we are now living,

[73:59] Father God, I pray that tonight, as we depart from this place, that you will give us, just an ever increasing desire, to know you more, through your word, that you'll give us, good rest tonight, and then as we come back, or go to our churches, in the morning, that we might be refreshed, so that we can worship you, anew tomorrow, in Jesus name we pray, amen.

[74:18] Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen.