Defending the Trinity - An Apologetics Seminar

[0:00] Good evening, everyone. It's a joy to be with you, and I need to move around quite a bit, and so I thought it would be better I hold this. Well, thank you, Pastor Brian, for having me here, and I've been wanting to come here for a long time, and thank God for the opportunity finally opening itself up.

[0:17] The doctrine of the Trinity and defending the Trinity, those are two things that I think we are, in a country like ours, without elaborating on more details, because it's particularly an issue that we have confronted occasionally for some, some more than others.

[0:33] How do you defend this doctrine of the Trinity? I remember I was, I'll leave the state unnamed, but there was a state in Malaysia that I had been invited to speak in, and you know it's not here because this is my first time here, but I was invited to speak to a group of people, and some of these guys were church leaders.

[0:53] I was asked to speak on the Trinity, and some of the people were talking to me about the doctrine of the Trinity, or they were talking to me about the content of my talk, and they asked me, what would you be speaking on again?

[1:03] And I said, the Trinity, you know, like, didn't you read the memo? And they asked me, some of the church leaders asked me, what's that? And, like, these are not regular church people.

[1:17] These were supposed to be leaders in church. And so, it's not my intention to put anyone down, but it goes to say something that the doctrine of the Trinity sometimes can be a neglected doctrine, especially in our day and age, because we like to think of questions that directly pertain to salvation.

[1:37] Questions like, what is the gospel? That deals with salvation. You know, you've got to answer that properly. Questions like, who is Jesus? That's important.

[1:47] But when it comes to the Trinity, some people think that, well, you know, this is a complex idea. Theologians discuss this. We don't have to get into those kind of things. And I wish to kind of challenge that idea today by simply saying, no, we have to discuss this, because Scripture discusses this.

[2:05] And Scripture, God has given it to us for us to think about Him in the way that He wants us to think about Him. So, there are ways in which we can think about God, and there are ways in which we can talk about God.

[2:19] And some of us start, very often start with ourselves and say, you know what, this is, I mean, I may not be a very educated person, but this is where I'm going to be. But what I want to do today is to kind of show us that God invites us to think about Him in a certain way.

[2:33] And the doctrine of the Trinity is not meant for scholars. It is meant for everyday Christians, and I'll explain in a bit why it is a central aspect to the Christian faith. But before I do that, I do want to tackle the question of defending our faith.

[2:48] Why do we even bother defending the faith? Someone once said, God needs no defending. And if God needs no defending, then why are we doing it? Does it seem like a redundant process sometimes?

[3:01] Well, the fact of the matter is, well, God needs nothing, and if God needs anything, He's not God. God commands that we defend. In fact, let me invite you to turn to 1 Peter 3.15.

[3:15] And this is not on the screen, but I'm glad to know there's going to be a little bit of Bible flipping today that hopefully you'll follow with me. 1 Peter 3.15.

[3:30] In fact, let me read from verse 14, because that's central. The sentence begins in verse 14. 1 Peter 3.14 tells us, But even if you should suffer for righteousness' sake, you will be blessed.

[3:45] Have no fear of them, nor be troubled. Let's stop before I get to verse 15. The context of 1 Peter 3.14 is dealing with a church in suffering.

[3:57] It's not dealing with a church filled with scholars. It's not dealing with an academic church. It is not written to a Bible school. This is to a church in persecution.

[4:09] You're going to lose your life. And in that context, the Apostle Peter says, verse 15, But in your hearts, honor Christ the Lord as holy.

[4:24] So, the two commands here. Number one, even if you should suffer for righteousness' sake, you will be blessed. Know that. So, the right response is, number one, have no fear, nor be troubled.

[4:40] That's pretty rich from Peter. He ran away. Didn't he? When Jesus came, was being arrested, Peter ran away. Well, he tried to fight with the sword first, and then eventually ran away.

[4:51] But now this Peter, after the risen Christ has ascended into heaven, and he is now in ministry, and put in harm's way regularly, he says that we should have no fear.

[5:03] That is our response to persecution. No fear. Not be troubled, but in your hearts, honor Christ the Lord as holy.

[5:15] Now, if you are a Christian, you have no choice, but to honor Christ the Lord as holy. You know, you go to, I'm not sure, do you have a lot of mixed rice restaurant over here? You go to the mixed rice restaurant, you can take this, you can take the chicken, you can take the mutton, you can take this, and you can choose the vegetables.

[5:33] I don't like the tofu, I'm going to skip that. Well, you can't do that with honoring Christ the Lord in the Bible. That's, like, if you don't honor Christ the Lord as Lord, you're not a Christian.

[5:46] You may like to call yourself one, but you're not, right? And so this is a fundamental issue. It says, honor Christ the Lord as holy, and the apostle deals with the next question, how do we honor Christ the Lord as holy?

[6:00] Verse 15, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you, yet do it with gentleness and respect.

[6:12] So, when I face persecution, according to Peter, I should not be afraid, I should not be troubled, and we'll come back to this. Please remember this.

[6:23] Number two, but Christ, I should, in my heart, I should honor Christ the Lord as holy. And the way in which I'm going to do that, is I'm going to give a defense, for why is it I'm being persecuted?

[6:37] In other words, don't be persecuted silently. Speak. Defend. This is why I believe this. And so, at the heart of the rise of the early church, at least in the days of the apostles, was this desire to defend the Christian faith.

[6:58] And the Greek word for defense here, to make a defense, is where you get the word, it's the word apologian, the word make a defense, it's the word apologian, which is where you get the word apologetics, which is the defense of the Christian faith.

[7:15] What is apologetics? Apologetics is to defend the Christian faith. But God doesn't need defending. Oh, He doesn't. But God commands us that in the midst of persecution, we should not fear, but honor Christ.

[7:30] And how do we do that? We make a defense. And we don't do it arrogantly. We don't do it condescendingly. We do it out of gentleness and respect.

[7:41] We do it out of love. Apologetics, God doesn't need it. But the people who are in this world, they need to hear the gospel. And so that's the heart of Christian apologetics. If you want to read some of the best material out there, and I say this because I've looked through some of these materials and just been completely blown away by how deep some of these writings are on defending the deity of Jesus even on matters pertaining to the Trinity.

[8:12] It doesn't use the word Trinity, but it deals with that. Read the early church fathers. Read the these guys who were the disciples of the apostles, particularly a guy by the name of Ignatius of Antioch.

[8:29] This is like early. You're talking about 120 AD. These guys are writing some of the best, I mean, some of the best possible literature that you can write there.

[8:42] Right? And he begins to write, this guy Ignatius begins to write letters to different churches. One of them is to a group called the Magnesians. Another one is, you know, to a letter to a church in Asia Minor.

[8:55] And you begin to see that in these letters he begins to articulate some of the best defenses for Jesus as God. Why? Like, what is he doing?

[9:09] What's the purpose behind all this? Well, turns out Ignatius is on his way to Rome. Okay. Why is he on his way to Rome?

[9:20] Is he having a vacation? No, he's on his way to Rome because he's been killed. And he's been taken to Rome to be killed. And on his way to Rome he finds it necessary to write to the church encouraging them to defend their faith.

[9:34] And so Ignatius' letters are one of the most powerful apologetics or defenses for the Christian faith. And we see a pattern that those who do apologetics are not the scholars. They're not the guy sitting in the chair, academic chair and coming up with this.

[9:49] These are guys ready to die. And before they die they want to explain why is it I'm so courageous? What is the hope that I have? And they're going to do this by defending the doctrine of what the scriptures or the doctrines that are worth dying for what the scriptures teach concerning who God is, what is the gospel.

[10:10] And so if I could summarize everything that I just said, what is apologetics in one word or in one sentence rather it would be this. Apologetics is the application of scripture to unbelief.

[10:28] I'll repeat that again. Apologetics is the application of scripture to unbelief. How do I defend my faith? Do I use logic?

[10:39] Do I use reason? Do I use science? Do I use philosophy? Well, yes to those things but primarily this is your apologetic. Whenever this book comes under attack you can use this book.

[10:54] How do you defend the Trinity? Use scripture. I've seen people try to defend the Trinity using human logic. There's one guy who went up and I know this guy.

[11:07] He goes and says the Trinity is like a fidget spinner. You guys still remember that thing? Well, it's got three little things but yet it's one and the guys he was speaking to mocked him.

[11:18] He went into big trouble and then he began to try and defend why the fidget spinner is an accurate well, analogy for the Trinity. Actually, it's not but he tried to defend it and he got mocked and eventually you know what happened?

[11:33] He was defending, he found himself defending the analogy instead of the concept or the doctrine of the Trinity. Why? Because he didn't start with scripture and so if you want to defend the Trinity the way you're going to do it is by opening the Bible because here's the thing the doctrine of the Trinity was not invented by certain guys in the early church with bearded white hair and they said you know what?

[11:59] We're going to come up with a nice concept about God. We're going to say that God is one but he's also three and we're going to explain this and confuse people so that the lay people cannot understand but we philosophers we're going to find this out.

[12:14] That's not what happened. People began to take the Bible and say what does the Bible teach about God and when you do that the doctrine of the Trinity is inescapable.

[12:24] that's the conclusion and so what we want to do if you're going to defend the Trinity is to take people to the scriptures and let me give you a point form very easy way to do this.

[12:36] The easiest way to defend the Trinity number one establish the Bible is the authoritative word of God. Number one establish the Bible is the authoritative word of God.

[12:50] Now in this session we won't have time to defend that so you're going to assume that number two after you you defend and say you assume the authority of the word of God number two the Bible teaches the doctrine of the Trinity.

[13:10] Therefore the doctrine of the Trinity is true. Now people cannot dispute the conclusion they can only dispute point one or point two.

[13:23] If they dispute point one they will say your Bible is corrupted. Oh your Bible cannot be trusted your Bible is corrupted. Well invite them to show which parts of the Bible are corrupted we can have a fantastic discussion on that and on our YouTube channel I think we've done about close to 20 hours of resources on just defending the Bible alone on our YouTube channel that is available for free.

[13:46] Authorship of the Gospels allegations of textual corruption all of those things. And if you have questions on that I'm happy to take that in the Q&A as well if you do have. So number one the Bible is the authoritative word of God.

[14:00] Number two the Bible teaches the Trinity. All you need to show is that the Bible teaches the Trinity and if these two statements are true the Trinity necessarily follows.

[14:12] You can't escape. And if someone says well it doesn't make sense. one of the things that's going to happen is that when I discuss with certain faiths some people will tell me this. I was in Fiji about two weeks ago well one and a half weeks ago I was in Fiji in a place called Suva in Fiji and I was at a university there and one of the students well a couple of the students who were not they were not Christian they were saying this that Trinity makes no sense.

[14:40] It doesn't make sense. How can I believe in something that doesn't make sense? and my instinctive response and you're going to find people this is a common cliche the Trinity doesn't make sense. You have to respond by saying this just because something doesn't make sense to you doesn't make it false.

[14:59] Algebra doesn't make sense to five year olds doesn't make it false. If you don't understand something the problem is usually with your comprehension not with the fact itself. In order for you to say that something is wrong you're going to have to demonstrate why it is wrong simply saying I don't understand it does not disprove something.

[15:19] It just means that you don't understand stuff. If anything you've indicted yourself not the doctrine. So you're going to say things that it doesn't make sense to you and my response is it doesn't have to make sense to you in order for it to be true.

[15:32] Right? I mean Einstein's theory of general relativity doesn't have to make sense to you whether for it to be true or not. I don't understand it. It doesn't matter. Right?

[15:43] So help people realize it doesn't matter whether you make sense of it. If you believe it is false, show me how is it false. The reason it is true is because scripture said so.

[15:57] Period. Scripture is God's word. It teaches this. Therefore, it's true. If you have a problem with that, show me that the scriptures doesn't teach this or show me why the scriptures shouldn't be trusted.

[16:08] If you can do that, then that's how you would disprove it. Simply saying it doesn't make sense to me is not a way around it. So always go back to the scripture and that's one of the things I'm going to point out.

[16:20] So with that, I think we're finally ready to get into how to actually defend the Trinity from the Bible. So everything I'm going to be doing today in really quick fashion is to just say how do you defend the Trinity from the Bible?

[16:36] Because if the Bible teaches it, it's true. And if someone doesn't like that, that's not my problem. But the only way they can go around it is by showing that the Bible itself is untrustworthy, which I welcome them to do that.

[16:50] If some objections have come up, people have come up to you about the Bible, feel free to bring that in the Q&A. We can possibly discuss that. So all I'm doing is the Bible teaches the Trinity and I want to get to that.

[17:01] So with that, maybe we can go to slide number three please, which is a t-shirt. Next slide. Okay.

[17:15] Why do we defend the Trinity? So what we're going to do is let's do a little bit of an exercise here. Maybe you can discuss with the person next to you. We'll do this for about two minutes or so.

[17:26] Again, just to be very clear, and this is for Pastor Brian as well, we're not selling this t-shirt. Okay. So don't have any in stock, never had, never will. Not promoting this t-shirt, but it is a t-shirt out there, right?

[17:41] It's available for sale, don't buy it, but don't support this ungodly cause, but in this t-shirt it says this, it is because God sending himself to sacrifice himself to himself to save us from himself is a bit much to believe.

[18:05] Now, do you think that's a good objection for the Trinity? Now, maybe you can, how would you respond to this? I'm curious to know before we start, how you would respond to this?

[18:16] Maybe you can discuss with the person next to you, behind you, in front of you, or if you don't have anyone there, you're in the middle, you can speak to the Lord, I guess, you know, one or two minutes, just discussing this, and I hopefully want to hear from you, what are some of the thoughts that you have on this?

[18:36] All right, maybe about another ten seconds. All right, have the councils determined an answer? What's the question?

[18:48] The question is, why should we not buy this t-shirt? So, how do you resolve this? Do you think it's a good objection to the Trinity? Now, how many of you say, it's a good objection to the Trinity?

[19:03] I've never thought of this before. Can I see your hands? Thankfully, no one raised their hands, because we're going to have a special prayer meeting for those who did that. But anyway, we're going to pray for you.

[19:15] No, just kidding. It sounds like a good argument, right? Right, only if you, yeah, and I love the answer. So, this t-shirt makes sense only because if you don't believe in the Trinity, it makes sense.

[19:30] But if you believe in the Trinity, it's a non-issue, isn't it? Now, what about the rest? What do you find? What did you discuss? Anyone? Feel free to scream from the back.

[19:41] That's totally fine. Yes, go ahead, please. Right, right.

[19:51] But consider the objection. Do we believe that God sent himself to sacrifice himself to himself? In a sense, we don't, right? We don't believe that.

[20:05] What I'm curious is, who is this atheist thinking about when he came up with this t-shirt? Because I don't believe God sent himself to sacrifice himself to himself to save us from himself.

[20:17] And they say it's too much to believe. I agree. I don't believe that. Because, and this is why sometimes we, it's so important, and I was in a church and I was talking about the distinction between the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

[20:32] True story, okay, recently happened this year. It's a big church, okay. The pastor comes after the session, and one of the questions that came up is, who should we be praying to?

[20:47] Pray to the Father, pray to the Son, or you pray to the Holy Spirit? Well, I told the Bible teaches us that we pray to the Father, sorry, to the Father, in the name of the Son, through the Holy Spirit who abides in us, and he said work in us.

[21:07] And so, the person's next follow-up question is, in that case, should we be praying to the Holy Spirit? And my response is, the Bible never teaches us to pray to the Holy Spirit, and we should be biblical.

[21:19] Pray to the Father, through the Holy Spirit. In fact, Romans 8 says the Spirit intercedes for us. So the Spirit himself is speaking to the Father on our behalf. So I think we should do that.

[21:31] So, really sorry about this. But the pastor's response was interesting. The pastor took the mic and said, thanks very much, Sam, but if we think about things like that, we're going to have a hard time worshipping God.

[21:45] And this were the exact words the pastor said. If you get too theological, it's very hard to worship God freely. And I'm like, our worship needs to be theological. Right?

[21:57] Fortunately, I sat down already, so I didn't raise the objection. But if you want to worship God, you've got to worship Him in spirit and in truth. And sometimes people don't realize this.

[22:09] They pray and say, Father, I thank you, Father, that you gave your life for us. And I'm like, no, he didn't. The Father didn't give his life for you. Father, I thank you for dying on the cross for our sin.

[22:22] The Father didn't die for you. Jesus died for you. Jesus is not the Father. Right? And if Jesus is the Father, then there's a big lie going on in the Bible, as we're going to see in a minute.

[22:35] Right? So, I've been in a Tamil church, and sometimes in Tamil churches, I'm trying to see if anyone else here would know that. I'm not sure how well you speak Tamil, but one of the words for, any of you know, how do they refer to Jesus in Tamil churches very often?

[22:54] Not Yesu, there's another word they add behind it. Yesu, and then there's another word they add behind it. Anyone knows what word that is? Yesu, Pa.

[23:06] Father Jesus. Right? A lot of people use that phrase, Yesu, Pa, which means Father Jesus. Jesus is not the Father. There's a sense in which sometimes Jesus is referred to as a Father, completely different context, but the point of this t-shirt is wrong.

[23:24] God did not send himself. The Bible is clear, John 3, 16, for God so loved the world that he sent himself. No, he gave his son.

[23:36] The Father sent his son, that all who believe in him will not perish, but have eternal life. Had the 80s just read John 3, 16, the doctrine of the Trinity is there. Well, the Spirit is not directly mentioned in 16, it's mentioned above, actually.

[23:51] So, God did not send himself, God sent his son to be a sacrifice to himself to save us from the wrath of the triune God.

[24:04] That's different. The t-shirt denies, it doesn't even understand the Trinity to begin with. And so, why then do we define, most of the people that I've spoken to, including scholars from different faiths, they don't understand the Trinity.

[24:21] And I mean that. I'm not saying this to put people down. Most of the objections that people come up with, they don't understand the Trinity. How can God be one and three at the same time?

[24:34] Are we saying God is one and three in the same sense? No. Contradiction, one or three? One what? God is one being.

[24:45] He is three persons. He is not one person. He is not three beings. One of the best ways to think about the Trinity, a guy by the name of Nabil popularized this.

[25:01] Yeah, he used this in one of his debates and I thought this was really interesting. He says that God is best understood as one what. When you talk about what is God, God is one what because it deals with the essence and the substance of what it means to be God.

[25:20] But yet, when you deal with the question of who is God, persons now come into play. God is three who's in one what. That's probably one of the ways to think about it.

[25:33] But I want to use some biblical language. But first, let's ask the question, why do we defend the Trinity? Number one, it's central to the gospel. Can we go to the previous slide, please?

[25:44] The doctrine of the Trinity is central to the gospel because even in the Great Commission, verse 18, Matthew 28, 18, which by the way we'll be looking at tomorrow morning on Sunday, in the sermon I'll be preaching on this text.

[26:02] It says, How are we to make disciples?

[26:26] The way to make disciples is number one here, to go, right? Or as you go. The going is important.

[26:37] It implies that we need to be intentional about disciple making. And how are we to do it? The way we will make disciples is to baptize them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

[26:52] And number three, teach them to observe all that I've commanded you. So I cannot make disciples if I'm only presenting half of what Jesus taught. I need to present the fullness of what Christ taught.

[27:03] Number two, I also need to go and express an intentionality when I'm making disciples, but more than anything else, when someone commits to Christ, they commit not just to the person of Christ, but to the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

[27:18] In that sense, the doctrine of the Trinity is central to our baptism, to our Christian confession. You cannot be a Christian if you deny the Trinity.

[27:29] You can't. The very baptism itself is to be done in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. That's how central this doctrine is. So much for people saying Jesus didn't teach the Trinity.

[27:40] No, he absolutely did. It's central to disciple making. So go back to that. Let's do we defend the Trinity?

[27:52] It is central to the gospel. Everything about the gospel is about the triune God. John 3.16 is about the Father sending his Son. And then the whole point of John chapter 3 is that the Spirit brings about the new birth.

[28:08] That's the entire thing, born of the Holy Spirit. So the doctrine of the Trinity is central to being born again because it involves the Father sending the Son and dying and the Spirit bringing about the new birth.

[28:22] The doctrine of the Trinity is essential to the life and the ministry of Jesus Christ because the Father sends the Son and the Spirit empowers the Son in his human nature to accomplish the mission that the Father has given to him.

[28:39] You go to the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost. You see the Spirit is involved. How does the Spirit come? The Son sends the Holy Spirit.

[28:52] And why does the Son send the Holy Spirit? Because the Father has so exalted him at his right hand so that the Son can now send the Spirit. The triune God is manifest in every aspect of the New Testament.

[29:04] Number two, we defend the Trinity because the Bible begins and the two gentlemen I was talking to you about earlier from Fiji.

[29:20] They asked me, show me the Trinity in the Bible because they didn't believe the word Trinity is there, which they are right, the word is not there. I said the Trinity is there in the very first verses of the Bible.

[29:34] In the beginning, Genesis 1-1, God created the heavens and the earth. The earth is formless and verse 2 talks about the spirit hovering over the surface of the deep and verse 3 says God said let there be light.

[29:51] If I let my Bible interpret the Bible John 1 tells me the word of God is Christ. You have the word in Genesis 1.

[30:03] You have the verse 1-3 you have the breath of God or the spirit of God in Genesis 1 and you have God the Trinity is there in the first three verses of the Bible.

[30:14] You didn't have to go very far to get to the Trinity. You go to the end of the Bible Revelation 22 it ends with the Trinity. The Father is mentioned there God the Father is implied there.

[30:29] It goes on to say the spirit and the bride say come so the spirit is mentioned and Jesus is the speaker at the first verses of the Bible and the final verses of the Bible.

[30:46] So in fact scripture begins and ends with the doctrine of the Trinity. Number two well number three the doctrine of the Trinity is essential because it distinguishes Christianity from every other religion on the face of the world.

[31:02] Why? Because it's not something we made up. It's something that we in all frankness we don't understand. when talking about the Trinity John Wesley the founder of the Methodist church said this show me a man he was talking about understanding the Trinity and he says you produce for me a worm that understands what it is to be a man and I will show you a man who understands what it is to be the triune God.

[31:34] No one understands exhaustively what the Trinity is any more than can understand what it is to be a man it exceeds it transcends human understanding it doesn't violate logic human logic it transcends human logic and so St.

[31:53] Augustine I think who said this that if one tries to deny the Trinity they are in danger of losing their soul but if one tries to fully comprehend the Trinity they are in danger of losing their mind because it's profound right you don't you don't a creature can't wrap the mind around this and so in a sense the doctrine of the Trinity is not human logic but God logic it comes from the word and as we read the word with a heart to take all of what God teaches we have to be committed to the doctrine of the Trinity it distinguishes us from every other religion which I will argue at face level makes God after its own image if you develop a religion outside of God's revelation in scripture you end up creating God after our own image that God begins to sound like us talk like us whereas scripture gives us the other way around we are made in God's image so we start with

[32:55] God as the starting point we don't God first no God is God he exists outside of my well transcends my own mind my comprehension and I want to submit this mind to what God has revealed in his word so going back to the guys in Fiji again they're going to play an essential part in my presentation today one of them asked me okay Sam you've taken me through all of this already and this conversation we had for about one and a half hours he said okay explain to us the trinity in the most basic form because I just told them even if it doesn't make sense to you it doesn't it's not wrong so he said okay explain to me the most simplest way you can what is the trinity that's what we will do the most simplest way to explain the trinity is to mention these five statements let's go to the five statements next one number one there is one

[34:01] God there is one God number one number two the father is God so far when you when you talk about there being one God or one substance or one being or one nature for that matter no one is really well typically you don't find people objecting to that because those who believe in many gods don't care frankly to object right and you just believe in one God we believe in more but typically among those who believe or claim to believe in one God they will object and here's where you you you've got to tell them this we believe in one God and we believe number two the father is the moment you say Jesus is God people are going to say no no no show me where did Jesus claim I am God show me where

[35:04] Jesus said worship me have you heard that objection before show me one place where Jesus said worship me I'm ready to become a Christian no you're not Jesus was worshipped in Matthew chapter 2 verse 1 to 12 as a baby as a baby he him and so when someone tells me where did Jesus say worship me friend I worship Jesus because he said worship me I worship Jesus because he is one six that when God the father sent his first born into the world when he sent his first born into the world he says let all of God's angels worship him I worship Jesus because the father commands me to worship Jesus Matthew gospel begins with Jesus worship Matthew chapter two and the passage is interesting because you've got wise men from the east presumably modern day

[36:09] Persia maybe Iraq modern day Iran or Iraq they come to Jerusalem and of all places they end up in the palace of the king Herod and they go to the king and do something really funny they go to the king and say where is the newborn king worship him I'm like you're talking to the king and they're asking the king where's the other king we're here to worship him him those those who watch badminton when you see Lee Chong Wei did you watch the picture of Lee being inducted to the hall of fame that's like running to Lee Chong Wei and he's ready to take this picture with you and you say no no I'm just here to ask you did you see Lindan where's Lindan you know that's the kind of what and so that's what they to Herod and they say where is the newborn king we were here to worship him we have come to worship him and

[37:11] Herod does something so profound Herod says you go find a child when you found him let me know I too will come and worship him now he's lying but the fact is Herod recognized this was no ordinary child he recognized this was the divine Messiah and that's why religious leaders could tell that child Bethlehem they knew because the passage the same passage in Micah chapter 5 verse 2 that prophesies that Jesus will be born in Bethlehem also tells us that his going forth is from everlasting it tells us he's eternal that's Micah chapter 5 verse 2 the same passage that tells us he's born in Bethlehem tells us he's eternal so the Jewish people ought to have known that now these wise men are going to Mary's house and you know what

[38:13] Mary if she were a godly woman and Jesus was not God she should have stopped them and said don't commit this blasphemous act you never worship a person but apparently Mary had no problems no objections as the wise man worshipped Jesus in front of call his name Jesus which by the way means Yahweh saves because he will save call his name Yahweh saves for he saves that means he is Yahweh he is the Yahweh who saves his name will be called Emmanuel which means God with us why is it because after he comes God is with us yes and no it's because he is the God with us he is the God with us this was done so that his name will be called Emmanuel God with us Matthew translates that in the Greek he translates it to tell you his name is going to be called

[39:16] God with us what is the last verse of the gospel of Matthew we read that just now what's the final verse of the gospel of Matthew I am with you always he is the God with us at the end of the gospel of Matthew it's not God the father saying he's with us at the end of the gospel of Matthew it's Jesus saying I'm with you he is the God with us so the idea of Jesus being God indisputable it's there all over scripture number four the Holy Spirit is God some people will fight this some people will confuse this some people have no problems with it the Jehovah's witness will say well the Holy Spirit is God but he's like a force may the force be with you they kind of put that with the Holy Spirit and this is the part I don't understand either why would you say the Holy Spirit is a force now to be really brutally honest a lot of evangelical treat the

[40:24] Holy Spirit like a force we do have you ever heard people say I release the Holy Spirit have you heard people say that like I mean I want to know where do you have him contained was he in prison why are you releasing him like how do you release the Holy Spirit like he's a person so when we use words like that what we do is those kind of language sometimes you know we fail to realize that this person is God and he's a person he can be grieved do not grieve the Holy Spirit he can kill people he struck down Ananias and Sapphira the Holy Spirit being God is central to a lot of what the Bible teaches about Jesus and his ministry so much so that Jesus says in Mark chapter 3 the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is an unpardonable sin because the Holy Spirit is God number five they are distinct persons the father is not the son the son is not the

[41:26] Holy Spirit the Holy Spirit is not the father but father son and Holy Spirit is God they are God and so in a sense they share of one nature and yet they are three distinct persons if you if we believe that the father son and Holy Spirit are the same person some people would argue this one that the father son and Holy Spirit is the same person he was the father in the Old Testament he becomes the son in the New Testament and then he goes back up and becomes the Holy Spirit after that that's heresy because if that is true then Jesus committed lie the sin of lying when he's actually praying in the garden of Gethsemane and says father take this cup from me yet not my will but yours be done if Jesus is the father then it's my will is your will right so it's distinction in fact

[42:32] Jesus says I have not come down from heaven to do my own will but the will of him who sent me he's not the father the Bible says Jesus is exalted to the right hand of the father right is Jesus at his own right hand no he's at the right hand of the father so that's that's that's when you look through scripture it's very clear they're distinct persons so to summarize what is the doctrine of the trinity in the simplest form there is one God the father is God Jesus is God the Holy Spirit is God they're distinct persons that's the doctrine of the trinity now we can have a lot of questions about this but if you're talking about the building blocks this is the basic building blocks for our understanding of the triune God all five of these points are clearly spelled out in scripture and

[43:34] I mean clearly and so if someone wants to deny the trinity they've got to show why one of these points is not biblically derived does the Bible not teach there is one God we're going to show the passages does the Bible not say the father is God doesn't the Bible teach Jesus is God doesn't the Bible teach the spirit is God doesn't the Bible teach the father is not the son and the son is not the father and the the son that's the Bible clearly teaches the Trinity that's what the doctrine of the Trinity is now if you give me ten more minutes what I'll do is I'll give you a few Bible verses for each of these five points and we'll open for questions is that okay all right let's start with the first one that there is one God now you're going to pardon the writing here because I taught this on Zoom and I decided to just highlight certain things on Zoom on that and then somehow it got saved into the actual power point

[44:36] I don't know what I did right so but yes does the Bible teach there is one God absolutely Deuteronomy chapter 6 verse 4 hear O Israel the Lord our God the Lord is one 1 Corinthians 8 6 yet for us there is one God the Father from whom are all things and for whom we exist and one Lord Jesus Christ through whom are all things and through whom we exist 1 Timothy 2 verse 5 for there is one God and one there is one mediator between God and man the man Christ Jesus so when you go through what the scriptures teach about there being one God we begin to realize there's a very interesting especially in the Old Testament the oneness of God is quite interesting in the

[45:36] Old Testament and I'll get to that if we have time a little bit but what what you see the diagram on the right is how Deuteronomy 6 verse 4 would look like in Hebrew in Hebrew Deuteronomy chapter 6 verse 4 sounds like this Shema Israel hear Israel Yahweh Elohinu Yahweh Echad hear Israel the Lord our God the Lord one what's interesting is that the typical Hebrew word for one is Yahid Yahid is one numerical oneness like one two three that's Yahid but the scripture doesn't use the word Yahid Yahid in teaching about Jesus well the divine oneness it uses the word Echad why Echad well Echad can just mean simple one but it also can on some occasions imply a compound unity it's like a united one and the best example that we see this is in

[46:43] Genesis 2 24 in Genesis 2 24 it says quote a man shall leave his father and his mother and be joined to his wife and the two shall become Echad one flesh how many persons in the one flesh two persons man and wife one flesh so Echad one can imply multi persons more than one persons so it's very interesting that the place in the Old Testament which emphasizes God is one uses a word that can imply compound unity right so in and of itself so yes there is one God quite clearly scripture teaches that anyone who tells you Christians believe in more than one God does not understand Christianity we believe in one God number two the father is God this is easily established even in the passage we just read there is one God the father from whom are all things can go to the next one first

[47:48] Peter 1 3 blessed be the God and father of our Lord Jesus Christ so the father is God right and so in John 17 3 this is eternal life that they know you the only true God and Jesus Christ whom you have sent so the father is mentioned in John 17 3 as the only true God now don't get the false impression as some people have to try to use this word to say Jesus is not true God right because actually the end of 1st John says that Jesus is true God as well so the point here is simply saying this when Jesus is praying he refers to the father as the only true God because there is only one God Jesus never denied his deity in Jude chapter 1 verse 5 Jude 1 5 says this now I want to remind you although you once fully knew it no sorry that's just

[48:49] Jude 1 5 Jude 1 3 Jude 1 3 says beloved although I was very eager to write to you about our common salvation I found it necessary to write to you urging you to contend for the faith that was once for all delivered unto the saints verse 4 for certain people have crept in unnoticed whose condemnation was designated long ago ungodly people who distort the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ for licentiousness to sin and deny our only master and Lord Jesus Christ I may have butchered the last part of it but it says deny our only Lord and master Jesus Christ does it say that now when the Bible says that Jesus is our only Lord and master is that denying that the father is also both Lord and master no it's not doing that because they are one God so scripture would use the word

[49:50] John 17 3 the only true God to the father scripture uses that of the son scripture also talks about the son being the only true Lord so we have to read this in the way that scripture intends for us to read this there is only one God what was Jesus supposed to say was Jesus supposed to say the father is one of many gods no I mean Jesus is not a polytheist right Jesus believes in one God so the father is God no dispute but let's get to number three and due to time I'll just give you a few verses that outright teach Jesus is God John 20 28 Thomas answered him my Lord and my God in the Greek it is profound my God my Lord that is something that no Jewish man would ever say to another man not one now some people have gotten rather creative to escape this and what they would say is well

[50:51] Thomas was just in shock when he saw Jesus and out of that shock he almost says the equivalent of the OMG you know it's like my Lord and my God you know that that's assuming 21st century sacrilegious language which is something that people back in the day don't use Jewish people are scared to even use the name of God in vain so when Thomas says my Lord and my God he's not just saying that as Thomas answered him Thomas is saying this to him you are my Lord you are my God and so that's very clear the disciples did that and if Jesus is not God this would be a great opportunity for Jesus to say no Thomas you got it wrong in fact Jesus says do you only now believe so what took you so long that's kind of Jesus response you believe only because you see well

[51:54] John is not the only one Thomas is not the only one Titus 2 13 waiting for our blessed hope the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ Jesus is referred to as our great God and Savior explicit reference for Jesus being God 2 Peter 1 1 1 Simeon Peter a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ to those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with of our God and Savior Jesus Christ so Peter uses that language Paul uses that language Jude that's why I said Jude 1 5 earlier now Jude 1 5 is powerful Jude 1 5 says this I want to remind you although you once fully knew it that Jesus who saved the people out of the land of Egypt afterward destroyed those who did not believe who saved the people out of Egypt Yahweh the

[52:56] Lord Jude says that was Jesus maybe Jude just made a mistake maybe accidentally instead of saying Lord Jude said Jesus well Paul seems to be making the same mistake then as well again I don't believe it's a mistake just tongue in cheek here because in 1 Corinthians chapter 10 10 if you go with me to 1 Corinthians chapter 10 verse by the way 1 Corinthians 10 is talking about the exodus from Egypt right let me read from verse 1 for I do not want you to be unaware brothers that our fathers were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea and all ate the same spiritual food and all drank the same spiritual drink for they drank from the spiritual rock that followed them and the rock was Christ I thought Yahweh followed them in the

[53:57] Old Testament Paul just said that was Jesus okay now didn't the people of Israel rebel against God and didn't Yahweh send serpents to kill them let's read verse 9 we must not put Christ to the test as some of them did and were destroyed by serpents but I thought they tested Yahweh 1st Corinthians 10 9 says they tested Christ so Christ is Yahweh do you see that the scripture is teaching quite plainly Paul is saying the same thing that Jude says so you got John saying that you got Paul saying that you got Peter saying that you got Jude saying that I wonder who else we can pick oh yeah the book of Hebrews says that too let's go to Hebrews 11 Hebrews chapter 11 which which is which is talking about

[55:11] Moses by the way verse 23 I want to read from verse 23 Hebrews 11 23 by faith Moses when he was born was hidden for three months by his parents because they saw that the child was beautiful and they were not afraid of the king's edict verse 24 by faith when he was grown up refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter choosing rather to be mistreated with the people of God than to enjoy the fleeting pleasures of sin so Moses as he grows up he wants to be with the people of God than to enjoy the luxuries of the royal household of Egypt why verse 26 he considered the reproach of Christ greater wealth than the treasures of Egypt did Moses know Jesus apparently he did because he considered the reproach of Christ that means

[56:11] Moses knew Jesus so when I look through all of these things my bible is pretty clear you can't run away with it in the old testament whenever they saw God they were seeing Jesus now does the bible say that oh yes it does John 1 18 John 1 18 says this no man has seen God no one has seen God the only God or the only begotten God if you like who is at the right hand of the father he has made him known no one has seen God the only begotten God monogonest in the Greek who is at the right hand of the father he has made him known so in other words when Abraham saw God who was he seeing Jesus when Jacob wrestled with God who was he seeing Jesus when God was appearing before the people of

[57:12] Israel in a pillar of clouds and all that Jesus all they were seeing in the Old Testament is Jesus you know the funny thing is if you read John chapter 3 we go back to John 3 a little bit digress a little bit we read verse 16 we don't read verse often we don't focus on verse 15 14 15 what I find really shocking not so much shocking it's not a word but breathtaking is verse 13 let me read from John 3 13 no one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven the son of man verse 14 and as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness so must the son of man be lifted up that whoever believes in him may have eternal life Moses was lifted up the serpent because Yahweh was killing his people by serpents and when

[58:12] Moses lifted up the serpent the plague stopped now who is the one who was actually destroying the people it was Jesus and he's now saying in that same way I must be put on that cross that everyone who sees me and believes in me will have eternal life Nicodemus didn't realize he was standing face to face before the very person who destroyed the unrighteous in the wilderness that's why Jesus interrupts him when he says teacher we know John 3 begins with teacher we know you must have come from God because no one can do the works you do unless God were with him and Jesus says unless you're born again you can't even see the kingdom of heaven you don't know what you're talking about what do you mean teacher sent by God you don't realize you're looking God in the face and you're saying that it's a powerful thing to just think about Jesus is God no way around that real quick the Holy Spirit is God number four the next one please yeah now

[59:16] Mark 3 29 says whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit has the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness but is guilty of an eternal sin you cannot blaspheme a person you can only blaspheme God Mark 5 sorry Acts 5 3 to 4 Peter said to Ananias why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit verse 4 tells us you have not lied to man but to God the Holy Spirit is God the Holy Spirit also speaks as God Acts 13 2 while they were worshipping the Lord and fasting the Holy Spirit said set apart from me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them so the Spirit speaks as God 1 Corinthians 12 11 all these are empowered by one and the same Spirit who apportions to each one individually as he wills so the Holy Spirit wills and he empowers people as he wills so the

[60:19] Spirit is a person it's not a force it's a person and this person is God last but not least they are distinct persons let me quickly go through this I went through Luke 22 42 not my will but yours be done I went through John 6 38 I have come down from heaven not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me but John 14 26 is interesting Jesus speaking about the Holy Spirit says the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in my name so the Father sends the Spirit in the name of Jesus you can see the distinction of persons will teach so the Spirit is going to come and he is going to remind you of what I told you but the Father is sending him in my name Acts 2 33 being therefore exalted at the right hand of God and having received from the

[61:19] Father the promise of the Holy Spirit he has poured out this that you yourself are seeing and hearing so on the day of Pentecost Peter talks about the outpouring of the Holy Spirit as Jesus receiving from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit and poured out the Holy Spirit so in conclusion when we talk about the doctrine of the Trinity we are speaking the words that God would have us speak about him we are thinking about God as scripture would want us as God would want us to think about him and the easiest way to defend the Trinity just let the scripture speak just let the scripture speak don't worry if people don't get it that's alright it's not my job to make everything comprehensible but you want to just stick to the language of scripture avoid going into analogies because God cannot be compared to anything in creation the creator of this world cannot be compared to anything in creation avoid getting into analogies stick with the scripture you know what the word of

[62:31] God will not return void it will always accomplish its purpose what is apologetics it's the application of scripture to unbelief take the scripture all of what it teaches about the Trinity and apply it and God will do great things through his word when properly applied especially in the context of preaching the gospel let's pray God we are sometimes so in awe of not just what you do but who you are today you've given us a glimpse and an insight into who you are your your very nature that you would entrust us creatures with such profound knowledge help us now God use your words to think of you as you want us to speak of you as you want us to and to defend this doctrine using your word which is the ultimate defense in helping unbelievers and those with questions come to terms with who you really are we don't have all the answers and it's easy to get confused sometimes but we pray through the next few minutes as we go through the questions that you give us more clarity and you will help us faithfully defend this as taught by scripture and as was done by the saints that have gone before us and given us a great example of how we should defend your word by your word for your glory in

[64:10] Jesus name all right happy to have a time of questions you can ask questions on on the oh yeah you can you can do this do you prefer to do it yeah go ahead yeah sure thank you right so anyone who wants to raise a question either on this or the Bible even if it's not directly related that's completely fine yeah go ahead yes please yeah Yeah.

[64:42] Yeah. There's another mic. Okay. This is about the one that you mentioned just now, about the Bible being corrupted.

[64:54] Okay. So how would you answer that if they say, I don't want you to explain it from the Bible, it's corrupted anyway. Okay.

[65:05] Okay. That's my question number one. And then question number two, is that our like, okay, fine, you don't want to listen. Bye-bye. Is that our, you know? Yeah.

[65:16] Great question. Thank you so much for the question. How do we respond when someone says your Bible is corrupted? Bear in mind what they've just done. When, if someone comes to us and tells us that the Word of God has been corrupted, you've just accused God of being unable to preserve His words.

[65:34] And if you've accused God of doing that, you better have some solid evidence to back that up. And so what I would do if someone tells me the Bible is corrupted, is number one, tell them where. Where is it corrupted?

[65:46] Now most of the time, 90% of the time, well, I shouldn't say 90, maybe 80% of the time, the person who is actually saying that has never even thought about it, is parroting something he's heard, or she's heard.

[65:59] And so they're going to say, it's there. So tell them what I, you can do this depending on how long you have. You can open to Genesis chapter 1 and say, this is the first one. Any corruptions here?

[66:10] No? Okay, let's go to the next page, Genesis chapter 2. Any corruptions here? And we're prepared to go all the way to Revelation 22. So, usually the person after you get to Genesis 3 gets the point.

[66:21] I need to come back with more ammunition. Because you just accused God of being incapable of preserving his words. Now here's where my defense comes in. The first thing I'm going to do is to go fall back on God's own word.

[66:35] Jesus said, heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. And most of the time, people accusing the Bible of corruption are not politeists.

[66:48] They are people who believe Jesus is a prophet, or who believe that Jesus is God, in the case of the cults. So I'm going to tell them, are you calling Jesus a liar here? Because you just said, Jesus said, heaven and earth will pass away.

[67:03] Meaning, the possibility of the earth and the heavens passing away is far greater than the words of Jesus passing away. That's the level of Jesus' confidence.

[67:15] And you cannot claim Jesus is a prophet, or even a God for that matter, if you belong to one of those cults. If you believe Jesus was dead wrong on something that he was so absolutely certain about, that's the first thing I would say.

[67:30] The second thing I also would do, well, I pointed out that I'll ask them to show me where, and if they bring that out, I'm more than happy to go through with them what passages they have in mind. But if you're not equipped to do, you know, to go through the text and all that, first thing you do is ask them where it is, because if they have an answer, say, I'll speak to someone, I'll get back to you.

[67:51] Call Explain International, we'll give you all the resources you need. Right? That's what we exist for. Right? So, that's the first thing you do. Find out where, and if you have no answer, say, you'll come back with it, you're going to do that.

[68:02] But, the main thing, if you want to get deeper into how do you defend when people accuse the Bible of corruption, you have to, first and foremost, define what corruption is. Most of the time, people who tell us the Bible is corrupted have a faulty understanding of what corruption is.

[68:20] To them, if they're different manuscripts, that means it's corrupted. Now, if that's the case, it's very easy. Whatever that person says, I'm going to write down what they said, but I'm going to twist what they said.

[68:32] Okay? Like, the person said, for example, twinkle, twinkle, little star. I'm going to say, twinkle, twinkle, little moon. I corrupted your words. And they said, no, no, no, you can't do it. This is a copy of what you just said.

[68:44] It's different. I corrupted what you just said. No, that's not. So, when someone says that, what they have to do is, they have to define what corruption is. And corruption, properly defined, in a textual sense, means that we have lost the words of Jesus by human tempering.

[69:01] That somehow, the words of Jesus have been distorted, that we no longer have access to what they were. That's what corruption is. Do we have variants in our Bibles?

[69:13] Oh, yes, we do. Plenty of variants. I can give you the list of chapters, the list of verses, if you want to, but there are plenty of them. In fact, they are in the thousands, I would say.

[69:23] Well, let me see. Yeah, I would say there's more than a thousand places I can go to that are variants. But variants are not corruption. It's just that they're different manuscripts.

[69:35] We have found between 20,000 to 27,000 manuscripts of the Bible. That's more than any other religion or literature in antiquity.

[69:48] If you pile up the biblical manuscripts, they go up more than a kilometer up in the air. Petronas Twin Tower is not tall enough, right, to keep up with all of those things. So, the thing is this, you've got plenty of manuscripts.

[70:00] Scribes make mistakes. Copies make mistakes all the time. When I was in Europe, I go to the British Library and look up some of these codexes.

[70:12] And especially if you go to John Ryland's library in the University of Manchester, which I've been to, you get to see one of the oldest manuscripts, fragments that have survived, the P52, right.

[70:23] You look at some of these things, you've got digitalized copies of them. They've got spelling differences. They've got hyphen mistakes. They've got all sorts of problems. But, 99% of these variances can't even be translated out of the Greek.

[70:39] Right. And, bear in mind, there's no Cambridge English dictionary back in the day that says, this is the authorized spelling. Right. So, you've got plenty of variants. You've got plenty of distinction, I mean, different words for that.

[70:50] But, because we have so many manuscripts, we can reconstruct what the New Testament says. We can. And, that's what scholars are doing today. Now, for most of the other religions, you don't have that kind of luxury.

[71:04] Manuscripts were not preserved. You have that for Christianity. The earliest Christian manuscript that we have dates to about 125 AD. That's the Papyri 52, P52. You can Google this up.

[71:15] It's in the University of Manchester's John Ryland Library. That's the oldest one we have. Some of the oldest codexes we have, which is a complete collection of books, would be Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus.

[71:33] These are dated from about 350 AD and it's being kept in the British Library in London, which I also had the joy of just looking at. It was a very interesting moment to see that in person.

[71:45] But, yeah, so those are the things we have. We have those manuscripts. You can find digitalized copies online. If you go to New Testament Center for Textual Criticism, is that what it's called?

[71:56] NTC something, which is by Dan Wallace and his team. You will find digitalized copies that anyone can access if you know the Greek, of course. So, yeah, we do have variants.

[72:07] We're not doing that. But when people start saying that there are corruptions, that's where the problem comes. And here's the thing. The essential doctrines of Christianity are never the issue.

[72:21] Now, how many of you here have heard of Bart Ehrman? Any of you heard of the name Bart Ehrman? Yeah, you have. Have you heard the claim that Bart Ehrman claims that the New Testament has been corrupted? People use Bart Ehrman because they claim he's an atheist New Testament scholar.

[72:38] And they claim that Bart Ehrman, he's a New Testament scholar, New York Times bestseller, critique of the New Testament. He has exposed and showed that the New Testament is textually corrupted. Your doctrines are unreliable.

[72:50] Really, I actually had the privilege of moderating one of Bart Ehrman's debates. And in the Q&A of the debate, I told Ehrman, I'm going to abuse my privilege as moderator. I'm going to ask you a question.

[73:01] Put him on the spot. How do you respond if someone says my Bible is corrupted and I cannot trust the essential doctrines? You will find this on YouTube. Ehrman says, essential doctrines are never at stake.

[73:12] I've never changed my mind. I've never said this. I know people say that I've changed my mind. These exact words of Ehrman, I've never claimed that essential doctrines are at stake. What I'm simply saying is there are significant textual issues.

[73:24] That we agree. But the doctrine is never corrupted. The doctrines are not at stake. Essential doctrines are not at stake. If you go and type my name, Samuel Nason, Bart Ehrman, on YouTube, you'll find this video.

[73:36] It's only a three-minute video. And you will see Bart Ehrman explaining why he never claims the essential doctrines are at stake. So I would challenge those people to explain to me what corruption even is.

[73:48] And for the most part, I would say to you, most people don't even understand what corruption means when they want to accuse God's word of corruption. That's usually the tragic part of it. Now, if you've got some examples that you want to discuss, I'm happy to get into the most specific details.

[74:02] But this is a general overview of what I will do. Number one, ask them, show me where, because you just accused him. Number two, I point to Jesus' words. Heaven and earth will pass away. My words will never pass away. Number three, explain what corruption is.

[74:14] We've lost the doctrines. Our doctrines cannot be trusted. Even the most radical atheist scholar like Bart Ehrman does not believe in that. That's what I would say. All right. Any other questions?

[74:27] Oh, we have one. Let's go to one and I'll come to you. Go ahead. Yeah. That's right. Thank you. So you can go to that website and you can find digitalized copy.

[74:41] Center for the New Testament textual manuscripts, is it? Center for the Study of New Testament Manuscripts. C-S-N-T-M. So the website is called c-s-n-t-m.

[74:53] Dot org. You can go there and you will find digitalized copies of the manuscripts that anyone can look at. Thanks so much. Let me just leave this question from somebody. It's kind of two related questions, I think.

[75:05] So he or she asks, if we are careful about saying, for example, that the father didn't die of the cross, so maybe a clear distinction between the purpose of the Christian. Could you just elaborate further on the connection between Yahweh's actions in the Old Testament being done by Jesus?

[75:24] That's the question. Yeah. Yeah. And then kind of follow up related to that is, I used to have this idea that Yahweh in the Old Testament was just the father, but is Yahweh actually just the name of the triune God?

[75:38] So the first question is explain Yahweh's actions in the Old Testament? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Got it.

[75:49] Can you talk more about Yahweh's actions in the Old Testament and you will say that it is done by Jesus? Okay. Got it. Yeah. And then Yahweh just the father and the name of the triune.

[76:02] Thanks so much. That's a really good question. I got asked that question in my last debate that I did with two Unitarian debaters. So the first one is how do you explain Yahweh's actions in the Old Testament?

[76:16] The same way we explain every one of Yahweh's actions. It's the same way. There is nothing that God does which is in isolation from the other persons.

[76:27] If it's in the atonement, the father is involved in the atonement by the way. It's not as if Jesus is alone in the atonement. No, no. The father is involved. The spirit is involved.

[76:38] The triune God works at one on every matter whether it's in breeding out scripture or whether it's in creation. You see in Genesis 1 the father speaks, the spirit howers, the son is the creating agent.

[76:51] The triune God works as one. There is nothing that the father is doing that the son and the spirit are not involved in. They're involved in one way or the other. So that's the thing we have to keep in mind. Number two, the simple answer to the question is how do you explain Yahweh's action in the Old Testament?

[77:06] Primarily the father speaks. Primarily the father is the speaker. Primarily, well, almost always, one exception maybe, but almost always every time you see God manifested it's Jesus in the Old Testament because Jesus is the image of the invisible God.

[77:26] That's Hebrews 1.3. That's Colossians chapter 1. That he is the image of the invisible God. So the father is invisible. Everything that you want to see about the father or know, you have to look at Jesus.

[77:41] Jesus is the perfect representation of the father. Hebrews says he's the exact imprint of his nature. right? Right? So, someone once said to me, Sam, if you want to debate whether or not Jesus is God, you first got to explain to us what God is like.

[77:57] Then you show whether Jesus meets the criteria. I say, friend, you got it all wrong. You want to know what God is like? I've got one word for you. Jesus. Jesus says, you've seen me, you've seen God. He's the perfect representation of who the father is.

[78:11] That's why when Thomas asks, Thomas is asking Jesus, show us the father. That's all we want. Jesus, you've seen me, you've seen the father.

[78:21] He's not, I am the father. But if you've seen me, I'm the face of the father. That's how you see the father. You see me. Right? So, the father is revealed perfectly in the person of Jesus Christ.

[78:33] So, that's how you can tell God's actions in the Old Testament. Number one, all of the actions in the Old Testament, the triune God is involved. They're never acting in isolation. We call this the economic trinity.

[78:44] They're always at work as one in perfect harmony. Number two, when you see God speaking, most of the time it's the father. And the words that is often used to describe both Jesus and the spirit is ruach in the Old Testament, which is breath.

[79:02] He's the breath of the father, meaning he proceeds from the father. And Jesus is called the word, also proceeding from the father. So, both the spirit and the son proceed from the father.

[79:13] And I would argue, it's an unrelated point. The spirit proceeds from both the father and the son. But, that's how you deal with understanding the actions of the triune God in the Old Testament.

[79:25] But to your second question, that's a more important one, I think, which is, when you, who does the word Yahweh apply to? Is it of the father? Is it of the son? Is it the Holy Spirit?

[79:36] Now, in a sense, all three of them are Yahweh because Deuteronomy 6.4 says, He, O Israel, Yahweh Elohimu, Yahweh Echad. He, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.

[79:48] Yahweh is one. The father is Yahweh. The son is Yahweh. The Holy Spirit is Yahweh. How do you know this? Well, first of all, there's no dispute. The father is Yahweh.

[79:59] No one denies that, right? But number two, confession. Yeah, yeah, confession. Philippians chapter 2, verse 5.

[80:12] For Christ Jesus, though in the form of God, did not consider equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself by taking on the form of a servant. I'm going to skip down to verse 10, I believe.

[80:23] Therefore God has exalted him and given him a name above every other name that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow in heaven and earth and under the earth and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord.

[80:40] That's the Greek, in the Greek that's kyrios, that's the equivalent for Yahweh in the Old Testament because the Old Testament says everyone will proclaim, every tongue will confess Yahweh, right?

[80:52] Now in the New Testament every tongue confesses Jesus is Yahweh. So that's how you know that Jesus is also Lord. Another example I would give you that the Bible actually teaches Jesus is Yahweh or so as well.

[81:04] is in 1 Peter 3.15. We read that just now. In your hearts, revere Christ the Lord, in your hearts, honor Christ the Lord as holy. Always be prepared to give an answer.

[81:16] What if I told you something? Remember Peter said in 1 Peter 3.14 and 15, do not fear, but in your hearts, honor Christ the Lord as holy. What if I told you Peter was copying Isaiah?

[81:27] Let's go to Isaiah 8.15. Isaiah 8.15. Verse 12. In Isaiah 8.15. Verse 12. I'm going to try and quote this from memory.

[81:39] I might butcher this. Good if you have your Bible so you can know where I go to this. But Isaiah 8.15. Verse 12 says this. Do not call conspiracy all that these people call conspiracy and do not fear.

[81:52] What does verse 13 says? But, let's go there. Isaiah 8.15. Verse 12.13.

[82:04] Do not call conspiracy all that these people call conspiracy and do not fear what they fear, but, anyone? But, verse 13.

[82:20] But the Lord of hosts, him you shall honor as holy. Does it say that? Now, Peter just took the exact same phrase.

[82:33] Do not fear, nor be troubled, but in your hearts, honor, instead of Lord of hosts, what did Peter do? Christ the Lord. Christ the Lord. Christ is the Lord of hosts.

[82:46] So, if you're asking, who does the word Yahweh, it applies to all three persons. Father, Son, Holy Spirit, all Yahweh. So, Yahweh could refer to the person of the Father, the person of the Son, the person of the Holy Spirit.

[82:59] Sometimes, they're distinguished. On other times, they're not, they're not distinguished. All three of them are referred to Yahweh. Let me give you one more example from Genesis chapter 18.

[83:11] In Genesis chapter 18, Jesus appears to Abraham. Now, why am I saying Jesus? Because John 1, 18 tells us that no one has seen the Father, they have seen Jesus.

[83:26] Genesis 18, verse 1, And Yahweh appeared to him, Abraham that is, by the oaks of Mamre, as he sat at the door of his tent in the heat of the day.

[83:40] He lifted up his eyes and looked, behold, there were three men standing in front of him. So, there's Yahweh, Jesus, with two angels. So, here Jesus is called Yahweh. Okay?

[83:50] Now, they're going to speak to them, and verse 9 says, they said to him, where is Sarah, your wife? Verse 10, Yahweh said, the Lord said, I will surely return to you about this time next year, and Sarah, your wife, shall have a son.

[84:09] And so, when Sarah heard this, verse 12 tells us, she laughed. Verse 13, Yahweh said to Abraham, why did Sarah laugh? So, Yahweh is clearly here. And we know it's Jesus.

[84:21] But notice what's happening right after this. Verse 16, then the men, which is the other two, set out from there, and they looked down towards Sodom, and Abraham went with them to set them on their way.

[84:34] The Lord, which is Yahweh, said to Abraham, shall I hide from Abraham what I'm about to do? So, the two angels who were with Yahweh have gone ahead of him to Sodom.

[84:47] Those are the two that are going to show up in Lot's house. Now, you've got Yahweh here who is standing in front of Abraham, and he's saying to, verse 18, shall I hide from Abraham what I am about to do, seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him.

[85:06] Verse 19, for I have chosen him that he may command his children and his household after him to keep the way of the Lord, Yahweh.

[85:20] But I thought, Yahweh is speaking. What does Yahweh say is that I've chosen him that Abraham may keep the ways of Yahweh? Because he's referring to the Father as Yahweh. Now, notice this.

[85:34] Verse 19, Genesis 18, 19, that he may command his children and his household after him to keep the way of Yahweh by doing righteousness and justice so that Yahweh, the Lord, may bring to Abraham what?

[85:50] Bring to Abraham what? He has promised him. But I thought, Yahweh is speaking. Why is Yahweh referring to another Yahweh as he? More than one person.

[86:03] So the Yahweh who is now on earth is going to say, verse 20, verse 21, that he's going to go down to Sodom. And so, Yahweh is going to go down to Sodom.

[86:14] Then you come to the destruction of Sodom in 1924. Genesis 19, 24. Sodom is going to be destroyed. Genesis 19, 24 says this, Then Yahweh rained down on Sodom and Gomorrah sulfur and fire from what?

[86:33] From the Lord. Yahweh, out of heaven. Sodom is going to say, Yahweh on earth raining down fire from Yahweh in heaven. Do you see that? Genesis 19, 24. Someone said, Sam, you're reading too much into this Yahweh, Yahweh distinction.

[86:49] Maybe it's just one person and it's all the same. No. No, it's not. You know how we know this? If you go to Amos 4, 11. Amos, chapter 4, verse 11.

[87:02] is going to talk about the destruction of Sodom. Except in that occasion, Yahweh is going to refer to someone else as destroying Sodom. Amos 4, 11.

[87:16] Amos 4, 11 says, I overthrew some of you as when God, Elohim, overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah and you were like a firebrand plucked from there and you have not returned to me says Yahweh.

[87:31] What? I overthrew some of you as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah. More than one person. So Yahweh is the father. Yahweh is also the son.

[87:44] Genesis 19, 24. Yahweh on earth. Raining down fire from Yahweh on heaven. So I think that well, really long answer to your question is that there are more than one person as Yahweh in the Bible.

[87:56] That's both in the Old and in the New Testament. So, next question. Oh yeah, go ahead please. Yeah, thank you. So this Trinity is God's logic because it is God's logic it is very difficult for us to use a human logic to explain.

[88:17] But they are, they do have many people try to use analogies to explain Trinity. and one of them is water. Water can exist in three states solid, liquid and gases and so is Trinity.

[88:34] That's to say, what is your comment? What is your nearest analogy to represent Trinity? Now, what I would say is this, I don't think there's any analogy that will sufficiently represent the Trinity because the simple thing is that the God of Scripture says to what would you compare me to?

[88:55] There's nothing on earth that can compare to the Creator. And so I would not want to use analogies because most, if not all of these analogies will end up falling into one of three errors.

[89:08] Modalism, which is that God takes on different modes at different times. So the thing about this analogy about liquid, gas and all of this thing is that there are different modes of the same water.

[89:19] The same water can this, but there are never liquid, gas and all that at the same time. Someone claimed that there's a boiling point and you can reach this at the same time. I think that's just stretching that analogy really, really far.

[89:32] The fact is all of these analogies would end up becoming modalism where you end up with three gods or one person in different modes or even worse, partialism.

[89:45] Partialism is the idea that Jesus is one third God, the Father is one third God, the Holy Spirit is one third God. Another example of this would be the sun ray, the ray of the sun, the sun and the heat.

[90:01] But the problem is the ray is not the sun. It comes from the sun. It's not the sun. You can't say the ray is the sun. You can't say the heat is the sun. Oh, I'm feeling the sun in the sense that I've got the sun on my skin.

[90:13] No, you don't. You'll be burnt up if that was the case. So I think the problem is that you'll end up falling into one of these three where you end up making God one third, one third, one third, which ruins the Trinity.

[90:25] Or you end up making it three gods, which is triteism. Or you will end up becoming modalism where it is one God, one person, but three modes. And I think the best thing is just to stick to what Scripture says, the five statements.

[90:40] One God, Father God, Son God, Holy Spirit God, not the same person. And just let them deal with the Scripture. Hopefully that doesn't really answer your question, but I guess hopefully that helps.

[90:52] Thank you. All right. Anyone else? No other questions? All right.

[91:04] Going once, going twice. Once again, it's been a joy to serve you. And thank you once again for saying this long. I pass the time back to you. All right. Thanks.